androgel and libido...

Discuss androgel and libido... at the Men's Health Forum; I have been taking androgel for 3+years for hypogonadism. I have taken doses ranging from 5 grams to 10 grams/day; ...

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Old 11-13-2009, 11:17 PM
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Default androgel and libido...

I have been taking androgel for 3+years for hypogonadism. I have taken doses ranging from 5 grams to 10 grams/day; my libido is through the roof regardless of dose. My total tesosterone has been all over the place but libido stays high.

I will be 60 shortly and suffered from ED for he first time ever this past year although Levitra works great for me although I have no trouble masterbating to orgasm. I might add my spouse is very sexy and very underrstanding so I can't figure out why masterbation is so easy but I can't keep a good erection without Levitra??

I have done shots and my libido was great but NOT AS GOOD AS my libido on androgel. Any others have this experience? I would gladly settle for less libido and a harder erection but I don't think I can make that deal.

Could it be that transdermals release a slow steady strem of testosterone which keeps my libido high?

Any ideas?

If you are healthy and have a low libido I strongly suggest a small dose of androgel (no I don't have money invested in this product nor do I sell it).
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Old 11-14-2009, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: androgel and libido...

ED can be a warning of cardiovascular disease.

Erectile dysfunction: A sign of heart disease? - MayoClinic.com

ED and the Heart - Heart Disease and ED


Androgel may cause less aromatization of T to E2 compared with shot.

You could get the labs run so you know what treatment is achieving. Check E2 (estradiol)

You would want to consider that Levitra and related meds carry the risk of sudden irreversible hearing loss.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: androgel and libido...

My wife and I are both 64 and she is also hot for her age and a female friend said that she was hot for a woman 20 years younger. However, I sometimes have a similar problem to yours. We have sex and it feels good for me (and her), but I just can't orgasm. Sometimes we just give up because we are both getting tired and try again about 12 hours later. Sometimes I am just really horny and then finish with masturbation. I use one of these:

Sensual Universe Warning Page

The reason that masturbation works is that you can apply more pressure than any vagina can and your hand can go faster than your (or her) entire body can. So you have more pressure and faster stroking.

From what I have read, a difference between gels and shots is that gels result in less conversion to E2 and more conversion to DHT. Both of those will result in higher libido for gels.

From my various tests and variations in gel application, taking DHEA, etc, what seems to work best for me is to have E2 in the middle of the range and free T of at least 100 pg/ml. I have had 5 E2 tests in the past 18 months of using Androgel of Testim. Libido and ED seemed to be best when my E2 was 34.4 and worst when it was <20 or 46.5 or 57.2. For some reason it was not very good when my E2 was 25.6, but then my free T was only 69 then. It was actually better when my E2 was 57.2 and my free T was 179. The best libido and ED was when my E2 was 34.4 and my free T was 101. I would guess that it would be great if my E2 were about 25 and free T about 120. The problem is trying to get everything perfectly balanced. One thing that I have found is that DHEA-S level means nothing relative to ED, libido or depression. I am actually worst when it is high from taking supplemental DHEA, probably because it is converting to E2.

According to Dr. Crisler, he believes that high E2 is normally caused by total T being too high for that particular person. He said that in his video that was posted here a couple of months ago. It would be interesting to know what Dr. Mariano thinks about that.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: androgel and libido...

I have a similar problem to you guys, i take 5mg of testogel daily though i havn't been using it for very long about 2 weeks now. My libido has improved marginally, still no morning wood, but i can perform better.

Interesting to read your comments about the conversion to e2 as i have some concerns about this myself.

If your finding it hard to finish, ask your lady to close her legs together, its very pleasurable for her e as it touches all the right places, and the pressure is very pleasurable for the guy.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: androgel and libido...

Something else that I forgot is that my penis sensitivity has decreased the past 2 or 3 years. I don't know if that is just because of age or if it is a result of the hormone problems (low T, etc). I do last a lot longer (sometimes too long) than I did just a few years ago. 25 mg of Viagra doesn't seem to make it worse, but 50 mg of Viagra seems to affect sensitivity and make me last too long. I have only tried Levitra (10 mg) 4 times and I don't remember it making a difference in sensitivity, but I will try to notice the next time I use it. I use the Levitra in the evening if we have wine with dinner and it lasts until the next morning, but I don't need a lot of help. We can have sex without me taking anything, but it sometimes takes too much work to get me hard. I didn't need anything when my total T was tested at only 348, but my free T was 101 and my E2 was 34.4.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: androgel and libido...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
If your finding it hard to finish, ask your lady to close her legs together, its very pleasurable for her e as it touches all the right places, and the pressure is very pleasurable for the guy.
I assume that you mean in the missionary position. For some reason we never thought of that, even though we do that in the doggy position and it does help in that position. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:30 AM
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Default Re: androgel and libido...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
Interesting to read your comments about the conversion to e2 as i have some concerns about this myself.
There are so many things that affect E2. There is your total T level, supplements that you take (soy, soy isoflavones, DHEA, etc), how much fat you have and probably many other things. Things like Indolplex DIM plus TMG or Arimidex will lower E2, but if it is too low you will have the same symptoms as when it is too high, plus low E2 is bad for bone loss. There is also some evidence that it is high E2 that is responsible for some cancers in men, like prostate cancer. My E2 level has been all over the place the past 2 years, but I have taken various supplements in different doses and I believe that is the cause of the big fluctuations.

Soy is another thing that is very controversial. Many people say that soy in any form is very bad for men, and they might be right. However, there is one study that shows that soy concentrate is bad for hormone levels, but that soy isolate is beneficial. There is also some data that shows that soy isoflavones take up E2 receptor sites and result in low E2. I tried taking soy isoflavones for 2 months and my E2 plummeted from 57.2 to <20, but I also stopped taking DHEA and was taking Indolplex DIM and TMG. Too many changes at one time, so I have no idea which were responsible. Perhaps all of them. It went up to 34.4 three months later when not taking any of those supplements. I now avoid the soy, except for a combination whey/soy isolate shake on days that I lift weights. There are several studies that show that the soy isoflavone genistein is beneficial to estrogen balance, stopping bone loss and possibly helping in breast cancer in women, so it could have positive effects in men, but there is no real information to show either way. It is just another one of those things that might have significant advantages and disadvantages.

It seems that getting your hormones just right is a never ending struggle, but then perhaps it is just those who are having fluctuations who write on boards like this. Perhaps there are millions who just slap on the Androgel or Testim and feel great and are completely happy with it.
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Old 11-14-2009, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: androgel and libido...

high E2 is an erection killer that even viagra, cialis, levitr won't help. 20-30 seems to be optimu levels for many-- use ultrasensitive E2 test only-- regular E2 is really a female test as
I understand it.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: androgel and libido...

Quote:
Originally Posted by biceps72 View Post
high E2 is an erection killer that even viagra, cialis, levitr won't help. 20-30 seems to be optimu levels for many-- use ultrasensitive E2 test only-- regular E2 is really a female test as
I understand it.
There is a lot of controversy on which test is best. Some say to use only the US test, while others say that the US test is defective and useless. I don't see how the regular E2 test can be valid for post menopausal women who have levels of 20 to 40 and not be just as valid for men who have the same levels. E2 is E2. It doesn't matter if it is male E2 or female E2.

Estradiol Ultrasensitive or not? - Anabolicminds.com

There was another discussion that I saw last month that said that Quest admitted that the US test was defective and returned money paid for the test to some people. I can't find it right now, but will try when I have more time.
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Old 11-14-2009, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: androgel and libido...

Here is another discussion on Dr. Mariano's site about the various E2 tests, including the validity of the Quest US test.

Hormones and Lab Pointers - The Definitive Mind - Forums
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