Clomid & Arimidex for Secondary Hypogonadism

[rbauer]

Clomid 25 mg daily plus Arimidex 1 mg just twice weekly is a pretty well proven combination for elevating a total testosterone level stuck in the 200 ng/dl range up to the high 600 or 700 ng/dl range.

In the short term, it seems to completely solve the problem of secondary hypogonadism without creating the kind of primary hypogonadism associated with gels and shots. What are some of the drawbacks or problems associated with using this combination long term ?

[wildfox]

Toxicity to the liver. Estrogen levels being too low.

[rbauer]

Wildfox, can you just monitor those values monthly and back off the Arimidex or half the dosage if there are indications of a problem starting ? Otherwise is it a good therapy then ? Thanks.

[JackBauer]

Originally Posted by wildfox

Toxicity to the liver. Estrogen levels being too low.

Clomid or Arimidex being toxic to the liver?

I recall seeing something about clomid causing vision problems?

[wildfox]

Originally Posted by rbauer

Wildfox, can you just monitor those values monthly and back off the Arimidex or half the dosage if there are indications of a problem starting ? Otherwise is it a good therapy then ? Thanks.

I'm not a doctor, and I won't recommend a therapy with this because I have only read about it, haven't done it myself.

Go to highwire.stanford.edu, search on

anastrozole testosterone

and read studies that seem relevant. There is a lot of info on the web about how steroid users use clomid and arimidex.

[FYI777]

All I'm about to say is hypothetically speaking and theoretical:

Having done some research myself , I have not seen studies of clomid + arimidex but rather studies done with one or the other,please cite those studies of the combination if you may.

Are you trying to get additive effects from arimidex or using it for estrogen management?Not sure it would work synergistically with clomid.

By the way you are right about "creating primary hypogonadism from secondary hypogonadism" which I don't think HCG helps but rather bandaids the situation.taking one medication for the side effects of another.

I think TRT/HRT should be "cycled" with your idea as a "bridge" so to speak.Then using naloxone(not sure spelling) to resensitize the HPTA axis.(see study on meso board)

[rbauer]

FYI777, yes, you are correct there are no studies of using them together, but separate studies both show a good effect. My original post was about managing any toxicity. So far in this thread eyesight, driving estrogen too low, and possible liver problems have been identified as potential problems. If those can be managed then it looks like either one drug, the other, or both together are a reasonable therapy for secondary hypogonadal individuals who want to improve HPTA function as best possible until a drug like Androxal (Zuclomiphene) starts being marketed.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by rbauer

FYI777, yes, you are correct there are no studies of using them together, but separate studies both show a good effect. My original post was about managing any toxicity. So far in this thread eyesight, driving estrogen too low, and possible liver problems have been identified as potential problems. If those can be managed then it looks like either one drug, the other, or both together are a reasonable therapy for secondary hypogonadal individuals who want to improve HPTA function as best possible until a drug like Androxal (Zuclomiphene) starts being marketed.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-...ost-cycle.html

[FYI777]

Originally Posted by rbauer

FYI777, yes, you are correct there are no studies of using them together, but separate studies both show a good effect. My original post was about managing any toxicity. So far in this thread eyesight, driving estrogen too low, and possible liver problems have been identified as potential problems. If those can be managed then it looks like either one drug, the other, or both together are a reasonable therapy for secondary hypogonadal individuals who want to improve HPTA function as best possible until a drug like Androxal (Zuclomiphene) starts being marketed.

JanSz thanks for that post, but it seems article mainly deals with efficiency of said Androxal in raising testosterone not toxicity issues.For all we know toxicity is same as that of regular Clomid but then you probably could use lower doses which would help in side effect reduction.

OK rbauer I see where you are coming from. In light of managing toxicity I'd say less toxic would be the arimidex vs. clomiphene but I don't think the ari is as good for raising test as the clo.(abreviating here). Ari increases test via lowering total E levels whereby clo is actually a weak E thereby displacing your endogenous E thus preserving some E which as we all know is better than no E.

I recall from the studies that ari actually is not as drastic as letrozole on E levels.
.
There are more options than just those two drugs.

I think cyclofenil may be better than clomid as it has some advantages over clo.

Also raloxiphene and tormiphene should be considered as substituted for the clo. Ralox from my research has less toxicity issues than clo,but not sure about the torm.I do know it seems more effective tho and faster than clo for test increase.

Also HCG used alone (was used this way in one of Shippen's earlier books and in another book I saw clomid used alone.)HCG has a very favorable toxicity profile almost nil,no vision,liver side effects.

Sometimes(like all the time,LOL) big pharma just "invents" a new isomer so it can get a patent and make big bucks but lot of time there is no advantage to using that "new" drug.

[pmgamer18]

Here is my take on this number 1 if your on clomid you can't test E2 and get a good results you need to be off the clomid for some time can't remember how long before you can test E2. Clomid was not made for long time use and you sure don't want to add Arimidex the it.
Post this to Dr. John to get the full info on doing this.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...ng/index2.html