Confused about what affects SHBG levels

Discuss Confused about what affects SHBG levels at the Men's Health Forum; I am a bit confuesed about how testosterone and androgens affect SHBG levels as I have read conflicting opinions. This ...

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Old 05-02-2006, 05:21 AM
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Default Confused about what affects SHBG levels

I am a bit confuesed about how testosterone and androgens affect SHBG levels as I have read conflicting opinions. This is cut from this post:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showt...highlight=shbg

"What determines how much free testosterone we have at any given time is an enzyme known as Sex Hormone Binding Globulin -- also known as SHBG. The more you have, the more testosterone will be kept in a bound state. The pesky little chemical is also the reason some guys hardly grow even while on high dosages of steroids. The more exogenous testosterone that enters your body, the more SHBG the body will produce. It's our body's way of maintaining homeostasis. It's also another reason why taking supraphysiological dosages of steroids isn't the wisest choice. The more you take, the more it binds, so at a certain point, most of it is just wasted....

This information also bears out reports that many pros don't take quite as much as one may think. The presumption is that in order to achieve that level of muscularity they need insane dosages but it's more likely that these lucky individuals simply have more favorable androgen receptors and lower SHBG than the average bodybuilder. To put it in comparative terms, if you were to take 1000 mgs of testosterone and your "free" T is 30, yet someone else takes only 500 mgs of testosterone (or none at all) and his free T is 40, he's going to kick your butt in a competition. It isn't fair, but that's the way it is.

Instead of taking more exogenous testosterone, it would make more sense to allow more of the testosterone we already have to become unbound. Unfortunately, the amount of SHBG you have is determined mostly by genetics and those individuals who have a lot of it will probably always remain "hardgainers." SHBG also increases with age. In spite of these drawbacks, there have been some fascinating findings that may be able to tilt the odds in your favor."

This post maintains that Higher testosterone levels will cause SHBG levels to rise.

This is a post by Marianco:

"Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) production by the liver depends on the summ effect of promoting and inhibiting factors.

SHBG promoting factors include: estrogens, thyroid hormone, substances which speed up liver production (including several anticonvulsants), liver disease, etc.

SHBG inhibiting factors include: testosterone, DHEA, insulin, DHT, growth hormone, etc.

One test for free estradiol (E2) is a saliva test for estradiol"



In this post it indicates that Testosterone will supress SHBG levels.

Also apart from SHBG relationship to testosterone, what about other androgens like anabolic steroids (injectable not oral) I have read that these will supress SHBG but I have also read vice-versa?

Can anybody shed some light on this?

Zadok
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  #2  
Old 05-02-2006, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Confused about what affects SHBG levels

marianco's post is correct.

jb
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Old 05-02-2006, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: Confused about what affects SHBG levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by jboldman
marianco's post is correct.

jb

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Old 05-02-2006, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: Confused about what affects SHBG levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by zadok
I am a bit confuesed about how testosterone and androgens affect SHBG levels as I have read conflicting opinions. This is cut from this post:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showt...highlight=shbg

"What determines how much free testosterone we have at any given time is an enzyme known as Sex Hormone Binding Globulin -- also known as SHBG. The more you have, the more testosterone will be kept in a bound state. The pesky little chemical is also the reason some guys hardly grow even while on high dosages of steroids. The more exogenous testosterone that enters your body, the more SHBG the body will produce. It's our body's way of maintaining homeostasis. It's also another reason why taking supraphysiological dosages of steroids isn't the wisest choice. The more you take, the more it binds, so at a certain point, most of it is just wasted....

This information also bears out reports that many pros don't take quite as much as one may think. The presumption is that in order to achieve that level of muscularity they need insane dosages but it's more likely that these lucky individuals simply have more favorable androgen receptors and lower SHBG than the average bodybuilder. To put it in comparative terms, if you were to take 1000 mgs of testosterone and your "free" T is 30, yet someone else takes only 500 mgs of testosterone (or none at all) and his free T is 40, he's going to kick your butt in a competition. It isn't fair, but that's the way it is.

Instead of taking more exogenous testosterone, it would make more sense to allow more of the testosterone we already have to become unbound. Unfortunately, the amount of SHBG you have is determined mostly by genetics and those individuals who have a lot of it will probably always remain "hardgainers." SHBG also increases with age. In spite of these drawbacks, there have been some fascinating findings that may be able to tilt the odds in your favor."

This post maintains that Higher testosterone levels will cause SHBG levels to rise.

This is a post by Marianco:

"Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) production by the liver depends on the summ effect of promoting and inhibiting factors.

SHBG promoting factors include: estrogens, thyroid hormone, substances which speed up liver production (including several anticonvulsants), liver disease, etc.

SHBG inhibiting factors include: testosterone, DHEA, insulin, DHT, growth hormone, etc.

One test for free estradiol (E2) is a saliva test for estradiol"



In this post it indicates that Testosterone will supress SHBG levels.

Also apart from SHBG relationship to testosterone, what about other androgens like anabolic steroids (injectable not oral) I have read that these will supress SHBG but I have also read vice-versa?

Can anybody shed some light on this?

Zadok
Sounds strikingly similar to Animal's claim!

Dustin
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  #5  
Old 05-03-2006, 06:02 PM
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Arrow Re: Confused about what affects SHBG levels

AAS suppress SHBG. TRT at physiological levels will not affect SHBG significantly. However, it has been conclusively and definitively shown that AAS suppress SHBG. It is not unusual to see SHBG levels close to zero (0) for individuals on AAS (particularly orals).
Peace

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Old 05-05-2006, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Confused about what affects SHBG levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by asih.net
AAS suppress SHBG. TRT at physiological levels will not affect SHBG significantly. However, it has been conclusively and definitively shown that AAS suppress SHBG. It is not unusual to see SHBG levels close to zero (0) for individuals on AAS (particularly orals).
Peace

Mike
Thanks heaps for the reply Mike.

When SHBG goes so low then does 'free Estrogen' come up very high? It seems that that maybe that is what am suffering from now. My TT is high normal, FT is v low and E1, E2, E3 low-normal. SHBG is <5nmol/l (17-70). I could post all my results and ranges if you want but have done many times before. I have a history of oral and injectible streroid abuse. However I stopped taking these substances over 9months ago. SHBG still has not come up at all

Zadok
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Old 05-05-2006, 03:39 AM
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Default SHBG levels, estrogen, testosterone, thyroid

Quote:
Originally Posted by zadok
Thanks heaps for the reply Mike.

When SHBG goes so low then does 'free Estrogen' come up very high? It seems that that maybe that is what am suffering from now. My TT is high normal, FT is v low and E1, E2, E3 low-normal. SHBG is <5nmol/l (17-70). I could post all my results and ranges if you want but have done many times before. I have a history of oral and injectible streroid abuse. However I stopped taking these substances over 9months ago. SHBG still has not come up at all

Zadok
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) extends the duration of action of testosterone and estrogens. When SHBG is low, more estrogen and testosterone can be free. However, free estrogen and testosterone can then be quickly destroyed. For example, testosterone has a half-life of about 10-100 minutes depending on the reference. Thus a person many end up with lower overall free estrogen and testosterone when SHBG is low.

SHBG, itself, can bind to its own receptors (SHBG-receptors) on cell membranes. Once bound to the receptors, it can then bind testosterone, estrogens, DHT, etc., which then triggers the production of proteins including androgen receptors, or trigger other changes in cell function. It may be important to have adequate SHBG to have the full effect of testosterone and estrogens.

Since low estrogen levels means one may have impairment in SHBG production, outside of adding more estrogen to the body, the one other hormone system to examine is the thyroid hormone system. Thyroid hormone can increase SHBG. So if SHBG is low, it may be important to check Free T3 to determine its activity.

Interestingly, thyroid hormone (T3 is the active version) also stimulates testosterone and other steroid hormone production in the testes Leydig cells.

The testes Leydig cells also produce Thyrotropin releasing hormone (TRH) - a function more commonly thought to be of the hypothalamus. Whether or not it can get into the brain and do its numerous mindboggling effects on behavior is not clear.

TRH from the hypothalamus increases TSH, which then increase thyroid hormone production. TRH also increases prolactin production.

TRH is also produced in the pancreas during hypothyroidism; and in other parts of the gastrointestinal system where it affects gastric motility, acid secretion, absorption of sugars.
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Old 05-05-2006, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: Confused about what affects SHBG levels

Check out this thread:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showt...light=low+shbg

Zadok
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Old 05-05-2006, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Confused about what affects SHBG levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by zadok
Interesting thread.

If free estradiol levels are higher when one has low SHBG, then the free estradiol would be expected to raise SHBG, which then would reduce the free estradiol levels.

Quote:
My TT is high normal, FT is v low and E1, E2, E3 low-normal. SHBG is <5nmol/l (17-70). I could post all my results and ranges if you want but have done many times before. I have a history of oral and injectible streroid abuse. However I stopped taking these substances over 9months ago. SHBG still has not come up at all
Total testosterone is high normal.
SHBG is low.
But despite TRT: free testosterone is low, estradiol is low-normal, estriol is low-normal and estrone is low-normal.

If estradiol is low-normal, what is the chance of having a very high free estradiol? One can check a saliva estradiol level to find out.

What are other factors that have not been examined which keeps SHBG low? For example, I would look for suboptimal thyroid function (free T3, free T4, TSH), insulin-resistance/diabetes (fasting glucose, hemoglobin A1c, insulin), etc.
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Old 05-05-2006, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Confused about what affects SHBG levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by marianco

If estradiol is low-normal, what is the chance of having a very high free estradiol? One can check a saliva estradiol level to find out.
Thanks for the reply.

Where i live they dont do any saliva testing. What are the ones like that I can buy off the internet? For Estradiol they are around $30. I have heard that saliva tests are inaccurate? SWALE didnt like them for some reason.

Cheers,

Zadok
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