fractionated serum estrogens

Discuss fractionated serum estrogens at the Men's Health Forum; Hi: I had my total E's measured last May and they came up elevated, at 317 pg/ml with Quest's Diagnostics ...

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  #1  
Old 07-09-2005, 11:09 AM
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Default fractionated serum estrogens

Hi:

I had my total E's measured last May and they came up elevated, at 317
pg/ml with Quest's Diagnostics reference range of < 130 pg/ml.

Then, one month later, my doctor decided to retest and they dropped to
181 pg/ml, which are still elevated. He doesn't have any clue of why
this happened. According to what I have read, my total Estrogens
should be around 88 pg/ml (2/3's of the reference range), right?

Can you guys think of any reason for this drop?

I already asked Quest for an explanation but they told me that the
high estrogen levels could have been caused by some estrogen
injection, which of course I didn't take. They refused to retest me
again as they told me that there's no lab error.

Also, within this total estrogen result of 181 pg/ml, I was also
tested for estrogens, fractionated in serum (also from Quest) with the
following results:

Total Estrogens 181 pg/ml ranges < 130
FRACTIONATED ESTROGENS, SERUM

Estradiol 30 pg/ml ranges 10-60
Estrone 37 pg/ml ranges 15-65
Estriol < 0.10 ng/ml ranges < 0.2

Total Testosterone 588 ng/dl ranges 189-1111
Free Testosterone 1.70% or 99.9 pg/ml ranges 1.1-2.8% and 40-150

According to Quest's lab info, the total estrogen assay measures E1
and E2, but if we add 30+37 = 67 pg/ml, it doesn't match with the 181
pg/ml (total estrogens). Basically we are having a difference of 114
pg/ml, which makes me wonder if there's another estrogen compound that
is being measured in the total estrogens test (maybe estrone sulfate
or another one)?

Has anyone been tested for estrone sulfate?

Too bad I didn't get the estrogens fractionated in serum when my total
estrogens came back to 317 pg/ml. It would have been great to see how
my estrone and estradiol were at that time.

I'm not on any HRT or any prescription drugs that could affect
estrogen levels.

I'm 29 years old and weight 47 kgs.

I really don't think that it would be a good idea to start taking
something to lower my estrogen levels, as this would be masking the
real problem as to why I'm producing too much estrogen when I'm not on
any HRT. (Any thoughts on this are greatly appreciated)

Thanks and your help is greatly appreciated,
Roberto

Last edited by robertin75; 07-11-2005 at 11:47 AM. Reason: change in title
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Old 07-11-2005, 11:48 AM
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Anyone with thoughts on this topic?

Thanks,
Roberto
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:00 PM
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Do you have any values for Total T and DHEA-s?
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:10 AM
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Total T is in my first message:

Total Testosterone 588 ng/dl ranges 189-1111
Free Testosterone 1.70% or 99.9 pg/ml ranges 1.1-2.8% and 40-150

DHEAS 875.3 ng/ml ranges 63-4586 ng/ml. This one is within range for a 70 years old guy !!!

Roberto
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:53 PM
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Are you having any symptoms of low testosterone or high estrogen?
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertin75
Total T is in my first message:

Total Testosterone 588 ng/dl ranges 189-1111
Free Testosterone 1.70% or 99.9 pg/ml ranges 1.1-2.8% and 40-150

DHEAS 875.3 ng/ml ranges 63-4586 ng/ml. This one is within range for a 70 years old guy !!!

Roberto
Since your total T is not high and your DHEA-s is not high, I am not sure what could be causing your high Total Estrogens.
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:40 PM
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Hi everyone:

Yes, I am having several symptoms of high estrogen and I'm not sure if they are also from low T including bloating and the feeling that everytime I drink a single glass of water I get full and I can feel that it sits in my stomach even the day after after I wake up.

It's like if you were hearing the sound of a balloon full of water.

And, maybe some people are going to disagree with me, but I really think that E2 is not the only problem as far as estrogens.

Most people seem to be concerned about E2 only but you should know some facts about the bad effects of long term high estrogen levels, including the following:

1.- Estrogen increases thyroixne binding globulin, and this will cause you to have hypothyroid symptoms because less thyroid hormone is free for your tissues.

2.- Estrogen increases cortisol binding globulin, and this will cause you to have low cortisol symptoms because less cortisol hormone is free for your tissues.

3.- Estrogen down regulates arginine vasopressin hormone (also known as antidiuretic hormone), which can make you feel dehydrated along with other symptoms of diabetes insipidus (not the typical diabetes melllitus that is associated with sugar imbalances).

4.- Estrogens influence the secretion of CRH by the hypothalamus and the expression of glucocorticoid receptors, thus affecting the negative feedback to the hypothalamus.

5.- Estrogens are implicated as enhancers of the immune response and
androgens as natural suppressors. Estrogens may stimulate macrophages to produce TNF alpha, IL-1, and IL-6, B lymphocytes to produce immune globulins and inhibit T lymphocytes to produce IL-4, IL-2, and IFN gamma. Androgens may (to a lesser degree) have the opposite effects. Concentrations of estrogens at the level of the inflammatory area are increased due to increased aromatase activity (Cutolo, Genova).

In other words, TNF alpha, IL-1, and IL-6 are bad proinflammatory cytokines in the long term, which are also potentiators of the HPA axis, which in turn, stimulate the adrenal glands to secrete glucocorticoids to counteract the bad effects of these cytokines.

These are just some of the bad effects of long term high estrogen levels.

As you can see, all the citations talk about estrogens in general, not just estradiol.

Of course, I'm not saying that everyone will have these symptoms, because most people in TRT will have their estrogen levels monitored regularly and take the appropiate measures immediately if they get elevated, but for someone like me, that has never been on any HRT, who knows how long I have been suffering from high estrogen levels, as this last May was the first time in my life that I got my estrogen levels measured.

Most endos I have been with either just measure estradiol or they simply don't measure total estrogen levels in males who are not on any HRT. They also think that estrogens are just female hormones and most labs I have consulted with don't include them in their male hormone profiles, which in my point of view is a BAD thing.

Regards and any input is greatly appreciated,
Roberto

Last edited by robertin75; 07-14-2005 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:46 PM
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Why don't you try some DIM with TMG to address your your High Total Estrogens. Is it possible that this lab test is wrong?
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:12 PM
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I would doubt that Quest has committed an error twice, but it can happen. Maybe I will try another lab later.

The thing is that even though in the second test my total estrogens dropped dramatically, they are still elevated.

From what other people have mentioned, we sould keep our total E's in the 2/3rds of the reference range, so it would be like 88 pg/ml using Quest's assay, unless my math is wrong?.

I may try some natural supplements to see if I notice some difference in my symptoms, but I would also like to discuss it further with my doctor (but I really doubt that he is aware of these products).

Where do you get DIM with TMG?

I know about the Indoplex/DIM, but I don't know anything about TMG.

What is TMG and did you mean to get a product that has both DIM and TMG in it?

If so, where do you guys purchase TMG?

Thanks for your help,
Roberto
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Old 07-14-2005, 05:13 PM
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Default Roberto

Have you had your Liver tested it could be that something is wrong and your not getting rid of the E's.
Phil
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