Free Androgen Index

Discuss Free Androgen Index at the Men's Health Forum; zadok, i started putting everything down to testosterone (total/free), E2 and DHT for my problems but the true fact was ...

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  #11  
Old 06-27-2007, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: Free Androgen Index

zadok, i started putting everything down to testosterone (total/free), E2 and DHT for my problems but the true fact was that my adrenals (which produce the important cortisol hormone) and thyroid were out of whack causing almost all my problems (even though my T did drop a fair bit from it's original value).

Our symptoms seem very simmilar, the shrunken penis, hard to get erections, no libido, etc. The problem here is thyroid/adrenals. I speak to a friend Chris (cjones) who posted on AM forum's a few months back and literally developed similar symptoms to us but with NO change in testosterone, E2, etc. His total T and free t were both top of the range and E2 mid range. However his TSH was identical to mine at 2.5 and thus he is in the "hypothyroid" range. Hypothyroidism can give the shrinkage, ED, low libido, etc and can also lower T (among other hormones).

HeadDoc is right, get your adrenals and thyroid checked in full. I went to see Dr Marianco for proper diagnoisis and it seem's i have hypothyroidism (even though i am very skinny) and adrenal fatigue.
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2007, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: Free Androgen Index

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megazoid
zadok, i started putting everything down to testosterone (total/free), E2 and DHT for my problems but the true fact was that my adrenals (which produce the important cortisol hormone) and thyroid were out of whack causing almost all my problems (even though my T did drop a fair bit from it's original value).

Our symptoms seem very simmilar, the shrunken penis, hard to get erections, no libido, etc. The problem here is thyroid/adrenals. I speak to a friend Chris (cjones) who posted on AM forum's a few months back and literally developed similar symptoms to us but with NO change in testosterone, E2, etc. His total T and free t were both top of the range and E2 mid range. However his TSH was identical to mine at 2.5 and thus he is in the "hypothyroid" range. Hypothyroidism can give the shrinkage, ED, low libido, etc and can also lower T (among other hormones).

HeadDoc is right, get your adrenals and thyroid checked in full. I went to see Dr Marianco for proper diagnoisis and it seem's i have hypothyroidism (even though i am very skinny) and adrenal fatigue.
Here are my results:

SHBG: 37 (13-71)
Free T: 57.7 (49.7-149)
Total T: 25.6 (9-27)
LH: 5.6 (0.8-6.2)
FSH: 10.4 (1.5-12.4)
Cortisol: 605 (221-690)
Prolactin: 340 (83-600)
Albumin: 46 (35-50)
T4: 69 (63-151)
T3: 2.4 (1.3-3.1)
TSH 2.21 (0.27-4.2)
ACTH 3.5 (2.2-10.7)
DHT: 2.58 (1.13-4.13)


How do you test for adrenal fatigue?

Zadok
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  #13  
Old 06-27-2007, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Free Androgen Index

I am sure JanSz will give a better rundown of your labs but your T4 seem's low and TSH high, in fact your lab's look similar to mine. I am willing to bet thyroid is your problem, you should consult with a Dr like Marianco to get proper treatment, this kind of thing is hard to treat right.
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  #14  
Old 06-27-2007, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Free Androgen Index

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megazoid
I am sure JanSz will give a better rundown of your labs but your T4 seem's low and TSH high, in fact your lab's look similar to mine. I am willing to bet thyroid is your problem, you should consult with a Dr like Marianco to get proper treatment, this kind of thing is hard to treat right.
This is true. Anything above 2.0 (for TSH) is suspect for hypothyroidism. Hey Mega! How was your trip back? Mine was a bitch. Check your PM mailbox.
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2007, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Free Androgen Index

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megazoid
I am sure JanSz will give a better rundown of your labs but your T4 seem's low and TSH high, in fact your lab's look similar to mine. I am willing to bet thyroid is your problem, you should consult with a Dr like Marianco to get proper treatment, this kind of thing is hard to treat right.
Marianco, any comments/advice?

Thanks,

Zadok
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  #16  
Old 06-30-2007, 01:35 AM
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Default Re: Free Androgen Index

bump
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  #17  
Old 06-30-2007, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: Free Androgen Index

Quote:
Originally Posted by zadok
Here are my results:

SHBG: 37 (13-71)
Free T: 57.7 (49.7-149)
Total T: 25.6 (9-27)
LH: 5.6 (0.8-6.2)
FSH: 10.4 (1.5-12.4)
Cortisol: 605 (221-690)
Prolactin: 340 (83-600)
Albumin: 46 (35-50)
T4: 69 (63-151)
T3: 2.4 (1.3-3.1)
TSH 2.21 (0.27-4.2)
ACTH 3.5 (2.2-10.7)
DHT: 2.58 (1.13-4.13)


How do you test for adrenal fatigue?

Zadok
You really have to get longer blood test.
Even with good blood test is hard enough, without it is hopeless.
Your testosterone is indeed low.
Cortisol looks just about right.
ACTH 3.5 (2.2-10.7)
See what this people have to say.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...o/how-to-treat
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ended-labwork/
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...f4d25f3df78e8e
Bottom line, try Cortef, no more than 20mg/day see if it makes difference.
Isocort, which is over the counter does not work (often enough).

Not enough thyroid data. Get FreeT3 to the top range Using Armour, then get FreeT4 llittle higher (Synthroid) (only if real low), then if that is not enough start digging deeper.

You should not start with supplementation of testosterone.
Check everything else first.
To do that get good test.
Below is a list, it pays on a long run to do that test. It is one time event, latter you will do much shorter tests. With out tests you need somebody to be clairvoyant and help you.
Good doctor looking at you could possibly figure out something, he still need tests.
Somebody who do not see you have no chance without tests.
Card readers do that, but I am not sure about success ratio.


0 iodine
1 CBC w/ diff
2 Calcium
3 Carbon dioxide
4 Chloride
5 Copper, serum
6 Ferritin
7 Magnesium
8 Potasium
9 Selenium
10 Sodium
11 Zinc
12 Alkaline phosphase
13 ALT
14 AST
15 BUN/creatinine ratio
16 Creatinine
17 Globulin, calculated
18 Protein Total
19 Urea nitrogen
20 Bilirubin, Total
21 Bilirubin, Direct
22 EGFR non afr american
23 RPR W/Titer & Conf RFX RPR screen
24 C-reactive protein CRP
25 Fibrinogen
26 Hematocrit
27 Hemoglobin A1C
28 Homocysteine, cardio
29 Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
30 Folate, Serum
31 Folate, Serum
32 Cholesterol, Total
33 HDL cholesterol
34 cholesterol/HDL ratio
35 LDL chol, calculated
36 Triglycirides
37 VLDL
38 Vitamin A
39 Vitamin B12, serum
40 Vitamin D, panel
43 T3 Free
44 T3 uptake
45 T3,Total
46 T4,Free
47 T4,Total
48 TSH
49 Glucose, fasting
50 Insuline, serum
51 PSA, Total
52 PSA, %, free
53 IGF Binding protein-3
54 IGF-1
55 Aldosterone
56 Cortisol AM/PM
57 DHEA sulfate
58 Prolactin
59 FSH
60 LH
61 Progesterone
62 Pregnenolone
63 Estradiol, Bioavailable
64 Estradiol, Free
65 Estradiol, Fractionated, serum
66 Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive (is part of fractionated)
67 Estrone,serum (is part of fractionated)
68 Estrogens, Total, Serum
69 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
70 Testosterone Total (included in T panel)
71 Testosterone Free(included in T panel)
72 Testosterone Bioavailable(included in T panel)
73 SHBG(included in T panel)
74 Albumin, serum(included in T panel)
75 Dihydrotestosterone DHT
================================================== =======================

SHBG: 37 (13-71)
Free T: 57.7 (49.7-149)
Total T: 25.6 (9-27)
LH: 5.6 (0.8-6.2)
FSH: 10.4 (1.5-12.4)
Your testis are getting enough signal and they are producing enough testosterone.
Your freeT is low, (who knows if really true, freeT test is not reliable).
Your SHBG is on higer side, not really very high, it binds testosterone so not enough free is available.
You may try to lower SHBG.
To do that use:
Compounded Chrysin cream from womansinternational.com
good and inexpensive
also this two types of pills (they ship everywhere:
Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00615.html
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin®
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00975.html

Eventually you will need to control estrogens, I use DualAction, 6 pills (they recomend one/160# body weight, not enough for me)
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00969.html
TMG
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00359.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you really want to get little extra T into your body, you have to be real careful because you have good working testis.
Using HCG and often enough is very important in your case, at least every other day.
Otherwise you will loose your own T and end up lower than you have started.
So you could have
Depo-Testosterone or Enanthate, strenght 200mg/mL
100mg/week and HCG
Every other day, E2D
=100/7*2=28.57mg/shot
=100/7*2/200=0.143=14 units on insuline syringe

Tshot=14 units on insuline syringe
HCGshot=250IU

I do my T & HCG shots both on same day.
Then you can have day free of shots in between.
For both shots you can use the smallest syringe there is, subQ shots around navel.
I rub a lot after T shot to spread the oil, not sure if I really need to do that, just playng safe.

http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

There is same size syringe that should also work.
http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $13.99

Last edited by JanSz; 06-30-2007 at 09:07 AM.
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  #18  
Old 06-30-2007, 10:10 AM
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Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 233
Default Re: Free Androgen Index

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  #19  
Old 06-30-2007, 10:32 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,790
Default Re: Free Androgen Index

Quote:
Originally Posted by zadok
JanSz

Thanks heaps for the reply. I have tried supplementing with Test about a year ago, it only drove my Free T levels lower and made me feel terrible. Also, why do you mention taking Cortef? If my cortisol levels are normal, why would I need this, or is there something im missing?

Thanks,

Zadok
When supplementing with T you have to do it the smart way, you do not want to suppress you own production.
If you have no choice, then you need larger T dose to cover all what your body needs,

I am not sure about your ACTH results, that is why I mentioned about Cortef.
If you are lazy about blood testing, trying little Cortef is a way of testing. If it makes a difference, you know you have identified a problem that needs attention.
Better check at
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com
they deal with this on daily basis.
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