Bill Roberts Prami Question

[KBD]

BR,

I have prami and i am currently running deca @ 400mg a week, and feel the sex drive going down a little bit but not alot. Could prami help with this?

[Bill Roberts]

Could be but I suspect that is for only the same reason that pramipexole can help sex drive of individuals not using Deca or any anabolic steroid.

Testosterone is about equally prone to increasing prolactin as Deca is, so I doubt that prolactin is the cause of libido problems commonly seen with Deca.

[KBD]

Originally Posted by Bill Roberts

Could be but I suspect that is for only the same reason that pramipexole can help sex drive of individuals not using Deca or any anabolic steroid.

Testosterone is about equally prone to increasing prolactin as Deca is, so I doubt that prolactin is the cause of libido problems commonly seen with Deca.

So you dont think its a prolactin problem then? Im getting my blood results back in tomorrow what do u think it could be. Would it hurt taking prami anyways?

[Bill Roberts]

I think it is another effect, one that we don't know how to fix. There is a lot of neurosteroid activity in the brain: as my guess, nandrolone interferes with this in some way that can lead to depression or loss of libido. High prolactin can be an aggravating factor; increased dopamine from pramipexole can be a libido-enhancing factor whether prolactin is elevated or not.

So, a moderate dose is unlikely to hurt and may help.

Did you happen to get prolactin tested?

[KBD]

Originally Posted by Bill Roberts

I think it is another effect, one that we don't know how to fix. There is a lot of neurosteroid activity in the brain: as my guess, nandrolone interferes with this in some way that can lead to depression or loss of libido. High prolactin can be an aggravating factor; increased dopamine from pramipexole can be a libido-enhancing factor whether prolactin is elevated or not.

So, a moderate dose is unlikely to hurt and may help.

Did you happen to get prolactin tested?

Yep. i was at 11

[Bill Roberts]

If ng/mL then that shouldn't be enough to cause a problem. But still prami may benefit because its benefit doesn't have to be from reducing prolactin.

Good work on actually measuring your prolactin, seriously. So many do not do that but still attribute their problems to prolactin.

[Jeton]

i was recently reminded that 5ar cleaves nandrolone into dihydronandrolone (dhn), which is far less androgenic than DHT yet competes for the same receptors. wouldn't DHN just sitting in the receptor occupying it passively but not really doing anything else seem a better deca-dick culprit than prolactin?

[Bill Roberts]

But it's not that DHN sits in the receptor occupying it passively. It does activate the receptor when bound, but it is much less likely to bind (less of it will bind at any time, for any given concentration.)

[Jeton]

Originally Posted by Bill Roberts

But it's not that DHN sits in the receptor occupying it passively. It does activate the receptor when bound, but it is much less likely to bind (less of it will bind at any time, for any given concentration.)

"much" less likely to bind? do u know around how much less? n does that likelihood vary under different conditions? i had thought DHN was at least somewhat competitive with DHT...

[Bill Roberts]

It's been measured but the exact number doesn't matter.

The issue with nandrolone and DHN is not that DHN itself is in any way a problem. Having DHN is having more anabolic steroid. This is never a problem

Some anabolic steroids, such as say methyltrienolone, are relatively speaking extremely likely to bind an androgen receptor at a given time. So only a low level of such a steroid is needed to bind most of the receptors. Others are less likely to do so and so a higher level in the blood is needed to bind the same percentage of receptors. This is not a problem: one just takes more of one of those steroids that is less likely to bind (has lower "affinity.") Having more of this steroid is still a plus. It is not that it makes things worse to have it.

Instead, the issues with nandrolone and DHN is that nandrolone occupies the 5AR enzyme and thereby is at least somewhat (how much, I don't know) of a competitive inhibitor and will decrease the amount of conversion of testosterone to DHT; and moreso, on a nandrolone-only cycle the total amount of steroid is usually not that great and in tissues high in 5-AR, these tissues receive less androgenic effect than most of the body does because they are in effect seeing a lower level of steroid. (The actual total amount is the same, but DHN is less likely to bind, so it is as if level is lower.)

In contrast, most other synthetics are unchanged by 5-AR so these tissues "see" the same effective level as the rest of the body, or testosterone is actually potentiated.

Where "Deca dick" is meant, by the person, to refer to function of the penis itself and the cycle is Deca-only or doesn't have much of other anabolic steroids, lack of DHT and lack of much else in terms of androgenic steroids may indeed be the problem.

However, the problem also includes low libido, and can occur -- as with the penis problem -- despite having what should be sufficient androgenic effect from other androgenic steroids being used. So here, conversion of nandrolone to DHN cannot be the problem.

I would say the problem is at both the penis and in the brain, but in some instances an individual's difficulty could be more from one effect than the other.

The erectile-function effect can be fixed with testosterone, trenbolone, Masteron, Proviron, and probably others. The effect at the brain unfortunately in many cases is not fixed by any of these.