Building the perfect cycle

Discuss Building the perfect cycle at the Steroid Forum; With all the different steroids and designer steroids out now, its time to get down to whats really important....what works ...

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  #1  
Old 11-03-2004, 12:52 PM
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Default Building the perfect cycle

With all the different steroids and designer steroids out now, its time to get down to whats really important....what works well with what, and what doesnt? As you know, some steroids do their work at the receptor like Deca and some do their work apart from the receptor like Dbol. Theoretically, a combination of receptor and non-receptor mediated steroids as well as a balance of androgen/anabolic ratios would you optimal. So lets hear your knowledge and opinions.
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Old 11-03-2004, 01:18 PM
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Good topic, id like to see alot of replies.

Class 1 steroids exhibit thier actions through AR binding
examples of such are Nandrolone, Trenbolone, Primobolan, and anavar.

Class 2 steroids exhibit thier actions through pathways other than the AR.
examples of such are Anadrol, Dianabol, Winstrol.

Testosterone has both Class 1 and 2 properties.

Class 1 stacks well with Class 2, theres the Deca/Dbol stack right there.
Add in a testosterone for libido purposes and to increase overall protein synthesis would futher increase the synergy and allow lower doses of the other drugs being used.

There is a excerpt from BTPB by L.rea which talks about constructing a max androgen phase.

He has it broken down to:
1) A good testosterone.
2) a High Androgen examples would be Tren or Dbol
3) a high anabolic example Deca, EQ, or winstrol.

But you also have to think of individual reactions, and the fact that many hormones have other propeties such as raising CP stores, RBC count, etc.

Common cycles seen on anabolic boards usually look like this.

Bulker - Drol/Dbol kickstart, Test and a high anabolic/mild androgen.
Cutter - Low dose test, High androgen, High anabolic/mild androgen, with the last 4 weeks usually being an winstrol or anavar.

Those seem to be working well.

I have to leave I may check this again later.
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Old 11-03-2004, 06:28 PM
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lets see if anyone can dig up info on some of the other ones such as Equipoise, Masteron, Turinabol, Furazabol, Halotestin, etc.

I'm trying to really find out how many and which steroids you can stack together that each have individual and synergistic effects, while not being overkill and taking two different types of juice that basically do the same thing. For instance, we all know that taking dbol, anadrol, test, deca, and equipoise in a cycle wouldn't be optimal....but where is the line drawn?

Also, another thing i've been wondering is if you take too many class1 AR binding steroids together, do the ones that bind stronger to the AR like trenbolone kick off the ones that bind weaker to the AR like test or nandrolone? kind of like proviron will kick test off of SHBG allowing more free test. becuase if a steroid only has weak non-AR mediated results and is competing with a steroid with stronger AR binding, then if it gets kicked off the AR its theoretically going to waste right?
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypertrophiac
lets see if anyone can dig up info on some of the other ones such as Equipoise, Masteron, Turinabol, Furazabol, Halotestin, etc.

I'm trying to really find out how many and which steroids you can stack together that each have individual and synergistic effects, while not being overkill and taking two different types of juice that basically do the same thing. For instance, we all know that taking dbol, anadrol, test, deca, and equipoise in a cycle wouldn't be optimal....but where is the line drawn?

Also, another thing i've been wondering is if you take too many class1 AR binding steroids together, do the ones that bind stronger to the AR like trenbolone kick off the ones that bind weaker to the AR like test or nandrolone? kind of like proviron will kick test off of SHBG allowing more free test. becuase if a steroid only has weak non-AR mediated results and is competing with a steroid with stronger AR binding, then if it gets kicked off the AR its theoretically going to waste right?

dude im guessing this is your first cycle

just run 500mg/week of test and youll be fine
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Old 11-04-2004, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adogg4
dude im guessing this is your first cycle

just run 500mg/week of test and youll be fine

you dont read the board too often do you? i've done plenty of cycles. and if you re-read my original post you'll see this is somewhat of an advanced question. That might be why Sev was one of the only people to responsd so far.

Since i've been at work all day i'll take the time to give my opinions now illustrated by alot of examples:

Person A) does a cycle of 500mg Test, 300mg Deca, 300mg EQ per week. Test has a 1/1 AA ratio, i think deca has a 5/1 ratio, and EQ probably has something like a 7/1 ratio but is weaker than deca or test by strength comparison. For instance, if judging by Anabolic to Androgenic ratios and mulitplied by their potency, 300mg of EQ gives the same anabolic effect as 200mg of Deca.....so is this cycle the same as taking 500mg of Test and 500mg of Deca per week? Alot of people say Deca and EQ are similar in anabolic effect with only slight differences in water retention and libido. If Deca and EQ both were to have AR mediated effects would they work synergisticly or just compete for the same receptor binding? Also, this looks like a very anabolic cycle and plenty of receptor mediated effects but would adding something more androgenic as well to balance out the ratio make this cycle more productive?

Person B) does a cycle of 300mg of Masteron, 300mg Fina, and 300mg Test per week. Masteron and Fina are extremely androgenic...probably 5-10 times as androgenic as test. This seems like a very androgenic cycle and the Mast and Fina are very AR mediated, but is an anabolic like Deca, EQ or Primo needed? Test and Fina are very anabolic themselves. Fina is at least 10 times as anabolic as Testosterone....but are they anabolic enough to keep up with the androgenic effects of this cycle?

Person C) does a cycle of Dbol, Deca, Test, Primo, Fina and Winstrol. Now we have a cycle that has instead of 3 different steroids - 6 different ones. Each are different in their own way...Dbol is not receptor mediated, Deca is receptor mediated, Test is both. Primo is super anabolic, but not androgenic. Winstrol is Androgenic but not very anabolic. Fina is very androgenic and Anabolic. So since this cycle sounds so balanced from both the perspective of the AR or non-AR binding as well as anabolic to androgenic ratios, does that mean this is the ultimate cycle? Or does mixing all of these steroids together just cause them to compete for the certain ways that they hold their effects on the body....and will the most potent steroid win therefore wasting the less potent ones? (kind of like the competition for the AR by Test and DHT or for SHBG by Proviron and Test)

I'm trying to really get people to think and dispose of some of the myths and heresay that goes with designing steroid cycles and look to what makes sense. Why not get the most out of our juice? If we all put our heads together there is enough collective information on this board to optimize our juice combinations in our cycles so everybody keeps making better and better gains each cycle instead of always chasing the muscle-bound dragon (metaphorically).
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Old 11-04-2004, 02:27 AM
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Another thing to think about when you put all this into perspective is if a person has enough juice to do 6 weeks of 3 steroids stacked together, then switch to 3 other steroids for the next 6 weeks....would this be more productive than taking all 6 steroids in half their weekly doses, together, for the full 12 weeks?

you're using the same amount of gear over the same 12 week period, but what is more important.....weekly doses of each steroid, or synergism between all the 6 different steroids? keep in mind, that if for instance the mg/ml of each steroid were the same then your total weekly doses would not change at all.
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:40 AM
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ttt
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:49 AM
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Hyper - again great posting.
I have heard alot of vets got banned from meso. That might be why me and you are pretty much just talking to each other.

I see all of your points, and I think it just proves the only way to know for sure is to experiment.

I have heard EQ/Deca stack is pointless because they are too similar in action.
Then I have also heard they are better for your joints combined because Deca causes more joint lubrication, and EQ ups collagen synthesis (or vice versa).

I also wonder about using 3 androgenic coumpounds at once like tren/masteron/test. I would assume that you would saturate your recptors pretty quickly, this might attribute to gains slowing down signifcantly.
And would also lead to more sides.

I really wish more would get into this topic, as alot can be learned just by looking at the synergy between compounds.

When I have more time tonight I will post more of my thoughts.

Hyper you also have mail my friend.
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:39 PM
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GREAT GREAT GREAT post. Now if we could only get some answers. Hyper, you read my mind... this is a topic I've been wanting to post about for a while, but wasn't sure if I'd get a answer worth a shit. Lets keep this thread bumped. I'm going to PM RexFeral, and see if he can add anything.

Keep this bumpped.

Aaron
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Old 11-04-2004, 02:33 PM
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