9mnths on trt can I restart naturally without drugs if I stop TRT

[angrydad]

Hi Guys.

I have had a couple of other threads here. So I'm grateful for any replies.

Cutting to the chase.I'm 37 I have been on TRT for 9 months after diagnosis of Low T, High prolactin etc.
Now trialling thyroid meds to see if that was the cause of my High PRL. I am subclinical hypothyroid with TSH varying between 3 and 7. Not had bloods done yet (it's too early need to wait a couple of weeks to check thyroid panel and PRL)

If the thyroid issues not causing the high PRL. They are going to prescribe quinogolide to lower PRL.
My question is..

A) If the only reason why I have Low T is because of High PRL Is it possible that I could produce my own T again once the PRL is reduced.?

B) Also how long is it likely to take for the body to notice me stopping Testogel.? I missed the gel for a day and felt awful. I am willing to put up with some aches and pains if my own T can kick in again.

C)But how long is it likely to take ? weeks, months or years.? Should I just stop the TRT once my PRL is normal and then just go for it..

My testicles have atrophied by about 30% at most in the last 9 months. As I'm in the UK I have been taking nothing except for Testogel. I read up on PCTs etc but I'm not a bodybuilder so I'm not worried about losing muscle. I just want to get off TRT because I would rather make my own. If that's possible. Just thinking I need to try this if it doesnt work then of course I would get back on TRT but I'm only 37.. Thats along time ahead worrying about doses, anxiety, etc.

I am not against PCTs or at least the principle of them, but I'm unlikely to get help from my Doc's in the UK regards HCG or clomid etc. That would lead me down the road of self medication etc.

What do you guys think? All thoughts/ ideas welcome.

 

[buddy1]

Yes, you can recover without PCT (generally speaking, not you in particular). It could be the difference between a 6 week recovery vs. a 6 month recovery. It might be difficult to guage your recovery since you had low T to begin with, combined with taking other medications. I'm no TRT expert, but those are my thoughts.

 

[angrydad]

Thanks Buddy

Really appreciate your reply. I am going to go for a natural restart shortly once I have gotten my prolactin down. Just hoping that it does all come back. Really not enjoying TRT.

I wonder how many others out there have actually succeeded in getting back to normal kind of levels after finishing TRT.. I am on TRT because I was found to have Low T caused initially by empty sella syndrome (damaged pituitary) a few years ago. Just hoping that the only damage that's been caused is the high Prolactin now. Just hoping that this is what initially shut down my own T production and nothing more sinister or 'ideopathic'

Thanks again

 

[hardasnails1973]

Thanks Buddy

Really appreciate your reply. I am going to go for a natural restart shortly once I have gotten my prolactin down. Just hoping that it does all come back. Really not enjoying TRT.

I wonder how many others out there have actually succeeded in getting back to normal kind of levels after finishing TRT.. I am on TRT because I was found to have Low T caused initially by empty sella syndrome (damaged pituitary) a few years ago. Just hoping that the only damage that's been caused is the high Prolactin now. Just hoping that this is what initially shut down my own T production and nothing more sinister or 'ideopathic'

Thanks again

Make sure eating and lifestyles are in a good balanced, along with thyroid, adrenals and other factors then you are ready for restart. If you are over 35, then chances of restarts are going to decrease significantly then if you are younger.

 

[Demondosage]

trying to restart your natural test after being on TRT is like trying to build interest with no money in your bank account. Good luck bro!!!

 

[BBC3]

Demon. Consider your muscle content. You are BRIDGING - not restarting. I gather you have not been without exogenous steroids for more than 4-6 months for MANY YEARS.

To the OP. Just quit. You will be fine in the long term. The only concern is whether or not PCT effects a receptor level RESET/CORRECTION which I suspect may potentially cause longer term issues I will not get into here, but which may validate the need for PCT for reasons not currently thought.... IMO If you are not fat, this should not concern you. Just quit. YOU WILL BE FINE...

To answer you question definitively. I quit TRT of 5 years, and most of them in doses FAR Exceeding high end TRT for over two years STRAIGHT. I did labs 14 month post cold turkey and was right where I left off in low 300's...

I am NOT disounting Dr. Scalley's work or the necessity for PCT. But for other reasons he may or may not agree with.

My issue and reason for this post is that I cant stand the PARROTING that goes on with steroidal BBs and their nonstop yapping about PCT, when all along they have never stopped the drugs long enough to see. THEY ABUSE IT AS A BRIDGE TO THEIR NEXT CYCLE.... That is all there is to it....

trying to restart your natural test after being on TRT is like trying to build interest with no money in your bank account. Good luck bro!!!

 

[Demondosage]

Demon. Consider your muscle content. You are BRIDGING - not restarting. I gather you have not been without exogenous steroids for more than 4-6 months for MANY YEARS.

To the OP. Just quit. You will be fine in the long term. The only concern is whether or not PCT effects a receptor level RESET/CORRECTION which I suspect may potentially cause longer term issues I will not get into here, but which may validate the need for PCT for reasons not currently thought.... IMO If you are not fat, this should not concern you. Just quit. YOU WILL BE FINE...

To answer you question definitively. I quit TRT of 5 years, and most of them in doses FAR Exceeding high end TRT for over two years STRAIGHT. I did labs 14 month post cold turkey and was right where I left off in low 300's...

I am NOT disounting Dr. Scalley's work or the necessity for PCT. But for other reasons he may or may not agree with.

My issue and reason for this post is that I cant stand the PARROTING that goes on with steroidal BBs and their nonstop yapping about PCT, when all along they have never stopped the drugs long enough to see. THEY ABUSE IT AS A BRIDGE TO THEIR NEXT CYCLE.... That is all there is to it....

yea i agree man, I was just cracking a joke. (well, for me it's true anyways, haha) if he has only been on for 9 months straight and before that it was in on/off cycle fashion then yes, he could come back. Just might take some time

 

[BBC3]

Its cool, only applying my thought. You are correct - Time. The concern about receptors I have my diminish with less time on and lower doses. I know nothing thought....

yea i agree man, I was just cracking a joke. (well, for me it's true anyways, haha) if he has only been on for 9 months straight and before that it was in on/off cycle fashion then yes, he could come back. Just might take some time

 

[Sworder]

My issue and reason for this post is that I cant stand the PARROTING that goes on with steroidal BBs and their nonstop yapping about PCT, when all along they have never stopped the drugs long enough to see. THEY ABUSE IT AS A BRIDGE TO THEIR NEXT CYCLE.... That is all there is to it....

I understand your point of the body will reach stasis no matter what. Or at least try. I think that PCT serves more as a kick-start for the body to hurry to get back to where it was. A kind of push so the HPTA starts running again, figuratively speaking. Clomid has been shown to be successful in restarting the HPTA though! I think the body has a checklist on things that it takes into consideration when it "decides" on where the levels should be.

One key thing I believe is the prostate, this is also why many TRT patients have used Tren in the past and their body doesn't want to produce more test because of the already too androgenic influence received in the past. Also, keep in mind that the body's levels fall for a reason. We are the ones that says that it is wrong and bad, and we choose to supplement TRT. I probably went totally off-topic and I apologize!

 

[angrydad]

Cheers guys for your thoughts on this. Indeed alot of food for thought. I cannot be 100% certain here. But, it was only a couple of years ago when I was struck with these problems. It was dizziness, joint muscle ache, putting weight on and fatigue.

I think I had some kind of trauma to my pit which caused the empty sella while flying. So much pressure in my head I thought I had a ministroke.
It was after this I had the above symptoms start.

MRI confirmed damaged pit gland. All my levels are near ok, except low t and hi PRL. Just hoping that the Testosterone was lowered BECAUSE of the high PRL. Just wish that at the time they had noticed this and just tried to lower PRL BEFORE just putting me on TRT.. Aargh.!

I am 6ft weigh 13stone 10lb so a little overweight. But before TRT I was at 15.5 stone took 1 yr to be diagnosed as low t. When the pit damage happened I was at my ideal weight of 12.5 stones and fighting
fit.
I am not a body builder and have never used any type of drugs before TRT. I just think that poorly administered TRT is awful, unless the docs actually listen to you, then prepare to suffer big highs and lows. Now I don't think I need to be at the top end of the chart at 37 years old. But with some luck, I hope to settle somewhere happily in the middle.

Do you guys know how long it will take for the testogel to leave my system once I go cold turkey? I tried it for 24 hrs and felt awful. I went back on because my PRL was still high, just wanted to try a dummy run!

Is there anything I should be supplementing with during this which may aid recovery I.e vits etc?

I imagine LH and FSH should start rising within a week? Then it would be upto my nuts to kick out some good stuff?

I appreciate being over 35 is a disadvantage, but it's not really that bad is it? But 37 is not well past it is it?


Just really appreciate your thoughts guys, pls keep em coming!

 

[O40]

I am not expert either and am in my 2nd year of TRT. Did many cycles so I would use the PCT meds if I get off HRT. I read studies where they were giving healthy males 200, 400, 600 mgs of Test injects a week, different control groups, for 6 months, when evaluating Test as a male birth control. Doubful they ran PCT's after the study. If you do it natural I would:

1. Lift weights and do cardio.
2. Eat healthy, don't drink alchol.
3. Eat lots of greens and lean red meat.
4, Check out lots of porn and have sex as often as you can.
5. Get up early.
6. Get exposure to sunlight., of course you in the UK, maybe tanning.

Good luck and please post reults.

 

[angrydad]

Thanks o4o that is really positive info. I will indeed follow up here with my progress. I'm hoping to get off trt in the next few weeks.

I think frame of mind is also important as i'm probably going to feel particularly awful for a while at least!

I need to give this a shot while I still have the chance. Should I fail, well then I will look at using restart drugs. But I think nature eventually finds a way.

I dont have anything against trt, but personally the way my case has been treated I would now rather run the risk of failure than settle for second best. Fair play to those guys who have got it working well. I just wish that the doctord hadn't viewed trt as a magic bullet.i.e one sustanon 250 shot every 3 weeks. It's had me on a wicked rollercoaster thay's not easy to get off!

Thanks for your kind/helpful words. A little help from strangers really does restore my faith in people.

Regards angrydad

 

[Tyler81]

Yeah you can just stop and your T levels will come back to normal. It may take a few months tho. And you will feel shitty for those two months. The main thing you will feel is tired and low energy and no sex drive.

I was on last year for about 4 months, came off, and i was back to normal within a month. So i'm just assuming it will take you a few months to return to baseline levels since you've been on for about 9 months.

I personally don't recommend any sort of PCT. Clomid will fuck you up more than if you just stop. All the guys on the internet who recommend these overly agressive PCTs are steriod users who are taking many different compounds. Not just testosterone.

That's my two cents. Gluck!!

 

[angrydad]

Yeah you can just stop and your T levels will come back to normal. It may take a few months tho. And you will feel shitty for those two months. The main thing you will feel is tired and low energy and no sex drive.

I was on last year for about 4 months, came off, and i was back to normal within a month. So i'm just assuming it will take you a few months to return to baseline levels since you've been on for about 9 months.

I personally don't recommend any sort of PCT. Clomid will fuck you up more than if you just stop. All the guys on the internet who recommend these overly agressive PCTs are steriod users who are taking many different compounds. Not just testosterone.

That's my two cents. Gluck!!

Hey Tyler, Appreciate your post mate. It's made me feel better about going for it. I do anticipate feeling absolute shitty for a good while.. When you put it like that I realise that I am not too far away from that at the moment, while I'm on TRT. I felt good for a few days when on Sustanon 250 (1 shot every 3 weeks from my GP's) then about every 7th day or so, I would get anxiety and panic. Which would take about a day or so to go. Then 7 days or so later the same again. I think it may have been the different esters kicking in. ABSOLUTE rollercoaster.. awful.

They actually did bloods 5 days before my next shot was due and my T levels were a fair way under the normal range still. I went onto Testogel and no matter what dose I get, still not feeling great. So just settled on 1x 5 mg pack in the morning. I can still get it up etc. Fingers and joints ache by the end of the day and my bloods still show just under the bottom of the normal range. But less panic attacks. I think I would feel fine injecting EOD but obviously my Docs won't buy into that regime. I don't want to start that kind of carry on without their support/knowledge.

But because of this high PRL issue I may well get it up lol but I have no motivation to use it! Sex drive is wiped out with it,. But hopefully that is being addressed very shortly.

I did go 24 hours without Testogel and I felt bloody crap. But no pain, no gain and all that eh.
Before I started TRT and diagnosis of empty sella and Low T High PRL. (BUT After I became unwell) My own natural production was just below what they are now on TRT. I do know that for the first 35 years of my life I felt fine, NO sexual issues, healthy, no aches and pains. Just hoping that it's the LOW T doing all this especially if it has been and is being suppressed by the High PRL.

Thing is even though after getting unwell and feeling shit, at least I didn't feel quite as shit as I do now! I didn't get bad panic attacks etc like I do now.

As you say, I reckon it will take a few months to get back to where I was, But with my PRL being finally reduced that should give my balls a fighting chance. None of this lowering of LH and FSH causing low T.

My only other question is. because I will be feeling so shit, Other guys mention regular exercise and weight training etc to bring it back up. While I have no Testosterone in me this is going to be very tough thing to do. No stamina and weakness. Will the exercise and weight training still help? Because joint pain and muscle ache is going to come back with a vengeance for a while. Once I stop the TRT I know that erectile dysfunction will come back for a while too.

Should I still push my body while off TRT to try and get my HPTA working properly, or should I just be resting and eating healthy food..

Looking forward to your thoughts guys.

Thankyou

 

[mikes75]

Just train very light, walking and max 2 light trainings a week. Hard training will not let your LH raise
its a fact even if guys says, do heavy squats and it raises your test,,, its maby ok when you are normal but if u wanna recover your Hpta its bullshit. For example my friends test levels were 13nmol (10-38) with low libido, for some reason he quitted the gym for a half year, and his test came back 20 nmol and libido much better. As we know, guys with low test have bad libido when training hard ...

 

[Tyler81]

My only other question is. because I will be feeling so shit, Other guys mention regular exercise and weight training etc to bring it back up. While I have no Testosterone in me this is going to be very tough thing to do. No stamina and weakness. Will the exercise and weight training still help? Because joint pain and muscle ache is going to come back with a vengeance for a while. Once I stop the TRT I know that erectile dysfunction will come back for a while too.

Should I still push my body while off TRT to try and get my HPTA working properly, or should I just be resting and eating healthy food..

Looking forward to your thoughts guys.

Thankyou

The first few weeks you stop, weight lifting and excercise is sort of pointless. Because your T levels will be in the gutter. They will be lower than your normal baseline whatever that was. I've tried training the week after stopping TRT and when I lift weights, even moderate weights, I can feel the strain on my BONES. And i dont maintain any sort of muscle /gains.

At the same time, my endo told me that excercising speeds up the recovery process. So I would recommend very light weights and some moderate cardio. So maybe 10-15mins of cardio a few times a week with some light weights. Don't attempt to lift heavy because you could really hurt yourself and its sort of pointless.

Yeah you will feel tired, no sex drive and yes some anxiety. After a few weeks feeling like this, you may just want to jump back on TRT because it feels like a lifetime. But if you can get past the one month mark you should be fine. Your T levels will eventually kick back in. You may be lucky and they may kick in as early as 3 weeks. But you may have to wait a bit longer. But it shouldn't be much longer than 6 weeks (is my guesstimate, don't hold me to that)

The course of action you are choosing isnt easy or fun. I've stopped TRT twice. Not fun.

Gluck!! Post an update in a month

 

[BBC3]

You are not off topic and thanks for your thoughts.

The body is proven to raise serum counts with the application of Clomid. You are correct. But consider, what if serum count is ONLY blood excess and based on the rate at which hormones are truely metabolized?. When all along the current demand structure is met, and will continue to be met - ON A DIME.... Where does a serum count tell how many TT molecules are being processed per second?

Again, I am not discounting the notion of PCT as restorative and recovery from AAS usage/abuse. I just have some other notions as to why it really works as a positive that may infact be a necessity.

I understand your point of the body will reach stasis no matter what. Or at least try. I think that PCT serves more as a kick-start for the body to hurry to get back to where it was. A kind of push so the HPTA starts running again, figuratively speaking. Clomid has been shown to be successful in restarting the HPTA though! I think the body has a checklist on things that it takes into consideration when it "decides" on where the levels should be.

One key thing I believe is the prostate, this is also why many TRT patients have used Tren in the past and their body doesn't want to produce more test because of the already too androgenic influence received in the past. Also, keep in mind that the body's levels fall for a reason. We are the ones that says that it is wrong and bad, and we choose to supplement TRT. I probably went totally off-topic and I apologize!

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Your situation is entirely different than the typical TRT. Do NOT perform a "PCT." However, it is a good idea to stop. Further, the thyroid replacement should shoot for a TSH<1-2.

 

[angrydad]

Hey guys

@mikes75 Thankyou for your advice, I agree that it's worth just taking things easy while trying to restore my HPTA. Probably really not going to want to do very much apart from rest anyway. I will do some light lifting and light cardio and eat and sleep well.

@Tyler, You indeed have really gave me a boost to go for it. I may well have to settle for TRT at some point, but for now I think I really must give it a go and see what the outcome will be. Just not much fun, knowing that it's going to hurt pretty bad. I remember what I was like before TRT and I know that this will feel worse than then because I will be starting from zero T.

If you don't mind me asking, why did you stop TRT twice? I guess that you still had low T and decided to get back on that horse? But you have really helped me out , all you guys have. I will definitely report back with my results!

@ Dr Scally, I'm grateful for your opinion and sage advice, you have had nothing to gain by replying to my threads but your advice has been so fundamental in my approach to getting better and the research material you found for me indeed helped to sway me Endo (looking at the Thyroid situation and my high PRL) and he appears to be on my side now. Trialling thyroxine now and going back soon to get my bloods checked. If that doesn't work or improve things then going to try Norprolac . Once my PRL is down then I will stop TRT and not do any PCT apart from looking after myself, light exercise and eating and sleeping well. So I thank you for all your help.

I will keep popping in here and updating my progress.

Thanks guys, this site & you guys have been a real life line. No one knows what's around the corner. But with a little help things don't seen so bad!

 

[angrydad]

Righty oh! just want to update you guys on progress! Got my bloods back after being on levothyroxine for the last 5 weeks. Tsh down to 2 from 6 my T4 is increasing nicely. Only downer is my prolactin has increased to its highest level..from 1800 to 2200. So I have started a low dose of cabergoline with my endo. Having a few light side effects now, but hoping they wear off soonish. Going to give it a week or so and then stopping my TRT and going to see what happens.

I was really anxious to take the cab, but if I need cab to get my testes working again, so be it!

Wish me luck guys