arimidex and nolvadex on cycle same time

Discussion in 'Steroid Post Cycle Therapy and ASIH Treatment' started by testocu, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. testocu

    testocu Junior Member

    Hi guys, I am on cycle 500mg testo-E. I have a little gyno before start the cycle. I dont want to develop. Only arimidex will be ok ? or Can ı use nolvadex at the same time on cycle ?
     
  2. roastdawg

    roastdawg Member

    adex and nolva are fine together in my experience.
     
  3. naturalkon

    naturalkon Member

    I have used them together but I have also seen places where it said the two should not be mixed. I'm kinda curious myself what the interactions are.
     
    TANGO.ECHO.KILO likes this.
  4. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    nolva will lower blood levels of adex BUT this doesn't affect the efficacy of either compound. They're fine to run together.
     
    Millard Baker and roastdawg like this.
  5. testocu

    testocu Junior Member

    Thanks for answers, today I start 20mg nolvadex. I hope will be Ok
     
  6. stang4u2nv

    stang4u2nv Member

    Shuld not be run together but be more specific do you have gyno symptoms now be fore the cycle started or you already started it and are getting symptoms? If gyno then use adex by itself until sides subside and thats it otherwise you can crash your E2
     
  7. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    Why not run them together?

    You do realize SERMs are better for treating gyno than AI's are right?
     
  8. I think you kinda answered your own question...From what I've read running concurrently will result in lowering the efficacy of the adex slightly. They CAN be run together but the dose of ADEX that previously managed estrogen levels appropriately may have to be increased to see the same management?

    In my experience I've never had to run nolva on cycle, if I flared up I would up my adex and symptoms subside. If you are proactive on managing e2 and don't let it get out of hand you shouldn't need Nolva concurrently. For those that have pre-existing gyno/sensitive why not just run aromasin from the start under the assumption you may need to incorporate Nolva if shit goes south??
     
    Docd187123 likes this.
  9. Millard Baker

    Millard Baker Member

    ^^ This.

    Use AIs to manage E2. I'm assuming you've had blood tests to determine appropriate dose. If gyno flares anyway, add nolvadex immediately.
     
    The ole man, Dr JIM, viking23 and 2 others like this.
  10. stang4u2nv

    stang4u2nv Member

    nolva is used when you are not using testosterone in the 3 to 5k range. Why? Well aromatization will occur much more rapidly as you run excess teststosterone, while nolva is run while testosterone is at or below normal levels to kick back production. Hence you are trying to kick something back up that cant get up, if that makes sense. By blocking the receptor from estrogen you are effectively freeing estrogen and yes increasing it. Then you take adex and its trying to bring that estro down but the nolva inhibits that process therefore its pointless. Unless you can effectively monitor estrogen levels while taking both compounds then you my friend are in the blind. Like most of us its russian rulette. My advise take adex only as it is very strong if not look at the dosing usually, 0.5mg will suffice for estro sides on most people for a few days. Good luck.
     
  11. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    I suggest you read the articles on this forum about nolva and adex.
     
  12. stang4u2nv

    stang4u2nv Member

    I will do it again, never hurts to freshen up on material.
     
  13. Pete59

    Pete59 Junior Member

    i would not take the chance. Both tamoxifen and a anastrozole have severe drug interaction warnings associated between these two meds if combined
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  14. Millard Baker

    Millard Baker Member

    There are no "severe drug interactions" combining tamoxifen and anastrozole. What do you think will happen?

    Like @Docd187123 said earlier, the addition of nolvadex only causes a small reduction in arimidex levels. For bodybuilders' purposes,this is trivial.

    And in fact, a tamoxifen+anastrozole combination is the best approach in many cases. Anyone using arimidex to manage E2 during an AAS cycle should ALWAYS have a SERM on hand to prevent gyno should it arise.

    Any recommendation to avoid nolvadex while using arimidex for AAS-using bodybuilders experiencing symptoms of gyno usually does more harm than good.
     
    The ole man, Ryno1980 and Docd187123 like this.
  15. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    Severe drug interactions really could you define what YOU mean by that statement?

    Are you suggesting either of these drugs have a "black box warning" not previously listed but discovered in the post marketing interval!
     
  16. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    People on AAS boards often attempt to apply data AND adverse effects from studies in which the ailments under investigation are entirely different from THEMSELVES.

    AI's and SERMS are a classic example bc the patients being treated were/are POSTMENOPAUSAL FEMALES with BREAST CA!

    Because earlier studies established the progression of breast CA could be inhibited indirectly through a systemic reduction of serum estrogen or directly by limiting the "binding" of estrogen to malignant cells, subsequent research was conducted to determine if combination (SERM and AI) therapy offered an additional improvement in mortality or morbidity.

    Consequently bc the number of patients who benefited from dual therapy was restricted to a very finite group of patients, the question arose about the RISK of combination therapy.

    Thats to say did the risk (such as undesirable lipid changes, loss of bony matrix, or increased CV events) in such a small class of patients whose E-2 levels were effectively nil for prolonged intervals, justify the benefit?
    ( In fact the researchers assayed AI and SERM levels as means to control for otherwise unforeseen variables that could effect the outcome yet once AAS forums interpreted the data the research developed an entirely different meaning!)

    That's what was being studied in essentially every instance of SERM/AI therapy and the RISK DOES NOT APPLY TO BB USING THESE DRUGS FOR SUCH SHORT INTERVALS!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  17. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    The last paragraph in parenthesis deserves further comment which is; once SOME of the AAS forums interpreted the data .....

    Dr Scally posted both studies I'm familiar with, AND in each instance he highlighted the fact the results should be applied to THE POPULATION UNDER STUDY RATHER THAN BB!
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  18. Pete59

    Pete59 Junior Member

    I should have elaborated a bit more on my post. If you go to any of the following established medical information sites, e.g. medscape, webmd or rxlist dot com and run a drug interaction query between Anastrozole and Tamoxifen they will generate a "Severe" drug interaction warning. Also, if you go to Astrazeneca's site (the wonderful people who manufacture both Arimides and Nolvadex), the number one drug on the list in their "Arimedex" profile, not to be combined, is Tamoxifen.

    All of this being said, a severe drug interaction warning does not necessarily conotate that if you combine two specific meds that the interaction would create physically harmful effects to the patient. It can also donate a depreciation in the effectiveness of one or both medications.

    In regards to the case of Tamoxifen and Anastrozole, you are absolutely correct, Tamoxifen does curtail the effectiveness of Anastrozole but the reduction is far from "slight" unless you are running very high levels of Anastrozole in proportion to Tamoxifen. Studies have shown that when 20mg ed of Tamoxifen and 1mg ed of Anastrozole were combined that the reduction in the effectiveness of Anastrozole was around 27%. If you take into consideration some of the recommended dosages of these meds during AAS cycles, i.e. 20mg ed of Tamoxifen and either
    .25 or .5 mg eod of Anastrozole, the resulting truncation as to the effectiveness of Anastrozole would be far greater than 27%. That could make all the difference in the world for some people.

    As I said, why take the chance? There are people that are very sensitive to the effects of aromatization and as you stated, you "should always have a SERM (such as Tamoxifen) on hand." Although Anastrozole is a very effective AI and for many individuals it is a great choice, if an individual does have estrogen sensitivity issues where a SERM such as Tamoxifen is needed, IMO it would probably be best to run it with an AI such as exemestane(aromasin) in order to negate any possible interactions.
     
  19. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    Read the full study from where you got your numbers from. At the bottom it doesn't say effectiveness of anastrozole dropped 27% but serum levels did and even so the EFFECTIVENESS of anastrozole E2 suppression wasn't changed

    http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v85/n3/abs/6691925a.html
     
    Ryno1980 likes this.
  20. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    ^^^^
    Well by golly you just mentioned a reason not only patients taking both tamoxifen and adex but also BB should follow the advice of their physicians.

    But since you don't have one of the latter let me simplify the process for YOU, cease all the pontification and conjecture and obtain periodic E-2 levels fella!

    CASE CLOSED!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015