(Best of Meso) Best of JohnSmith articles

Discussion in 'Training Forum' started by Bob Smith, Dec 11, 2003.

  1. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member


    Monday: Squats, Benching, Rows
    Weds: Squats, Military Presses, Deadlifts, Chins
    Friday: Squats, Benching, Rows

    Courtesy of bill starr bill starr, the greatest strength coach who ever lived, popularized this in the 70's with his great book, The Strongest Shall Survive, which was aimed at strength training for football. I believe he had essentually two different programs which both are 5 sets of 5. The first, which is more suitable for beginners, is to simply do 5 sets of 5 with similar weight jumps between each set so that your last set is your top weight. When you get all 5 on the last set, bump all your weights up 5 or 10lbs. Example for squat... 185 for 5, 225 for 5, 275 for 5, 315 for 5, 365 for 5. If you get 365 for 5, move all weights up. This is especially good for someone who is just learning a particular exercise like the squat, because the amount of practice with light but increasing weights is a good way to practice form.

    For more advanced lifters, he advocated a warmup, then 5 sets of 5 with a set weight. For example, the same athlete used in the other example may do 135 for 5, 185 for 5, 225 for 3, 275 for 2, 315 for 1, then 350 for 5 sets of 5. When successfull with all 25 reps at 350lbs, bump the weight up the next workout by 5 or 10lbs.

    This is not outdated, and is a good program for gaining strength. Many elite athletes still use it during at least part of the year. I in fact do 5 sets of 5 on squatting for 4 weeks as part of an 8 or 10 week training cycle. Personally, i do it 3 times a week, but most people will probably make better progress doing it 2 times per week, or even doing version 1 once a week, and version 2 once a week.

    In any event i described a system in a post a while back that goes something like this:
    Monday use the heaviest weight you can for all 5 sets (same weight each set)---- in other words when you get all 5 sets of 5 reps up the weight (most workouts you will get 3 or 4 sets of 5- and maybe your last one will be for 3 or 4 reps)

    Wednesday use 10-20% less weight- in other words if you used 200lbs on monday use 160-180lbs on wednesday- actual amount depending on your recovery

    Friday work up to a max set of 5-

    In other words lets say that your best ever set of 5 is 215lbs and you used 200lbs on monday for 5 sets and 170lbs on wednesday. On friday your workout might be like this 95 for 5 135 for 5 175 for 5 200 for 5 then attempt 220 for your last set of 5.

    This tends to work better as a long term program than doing the same thing 3 times a week. On exercises where you only do them once a week like deadlift you can just do the 5 sets of 5 like i described. On monday on exercises that you are only doing twice (rows) you could do both exercises like the monday workout or lighten one of them depending on your recovery ability. Be conservative with the weight when you start- that is important.

    Also i have used this program VERY often with athletes and it IS result producing. However many of your gains will show up after you use it for 4-6 weeks and you switch to training a bit less frequently and lower the reps and volume. However this is one program i have had a LOT of success with. In fact i rarely if ever use it with athletes who are at the top of their weight class because it causes too much weight gain unless you severely restrict your food.
    thebeastijwc likes this.
  2. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    8 Week Squat Program


    ok here it is, i had a hard time finding it, my dorm room is a mess (i printed it) i think this is the one your looking for, "i do squats only. however i also do alot of other pulling motions off the floor, and these also work the legs. as far as squats monday 5 sets of five with a set weight wendsday, 5 sets of five with a weight that is 10-15% less than monday friday, work up with sets of five, going for your best set of five heres an example of how we do this...

    lets say a person has a previous best of 5 sets of five weight with 300lbs, and has done one set of five with 325lbs for this person i may start with mondays weight of 285lbs, wendsdays weight of 255lbs, and on friday work up to a set of five with 310lbs, however if this person never trained this way before i would be much more conservative, more on that later then make small jumps each week, maybe week 2 use 295, 260, and 320 for the three workouts, week three use maybe 305, 265, and 330...and so on.

    however keep this in mind, if on monday you cannot do all five sets of five keep the weight the same the next week, and on friday if you fail on a weight you choose keep the weight the same the next week

    now, heres a few more hints, if you are not use to this sort of training and know you are gonna be sore as hell the first couple weeks, simply start more conservatively with the weight. if you are use to this sort of training, you can be a bit more agrressive from the start.

    also as the weeks go by, dont increase wensdays workout as much as the other two. also some people are able to handle a heavier wensday workout than others. i have had athletes who have reacted best if wensdays workout was only 5% less than mondays weight. i have seen others who needed 25% reduction, however the average seems to be 10-15%, maybe if your new to this training start with 25% reduction then next time try 10-15% reduction.

    with people new to this program i usually use it for 6-7 weeks, because we start more conservatively and it takes longer to get the benefits. with people who have done it before i generally go with 4 weeks at a time and go with setting records on monday and friday of week 3, week 4 is to try even more weight if week 3 was succesful, if it wasnt, then try record weights again. after this routine is over, we drop the frequency to about two workouts a week or even a bit less , and drop volume usually to 3 sets of 3.

    the first week, we use the same weight as on the last monday of the 5 sets of five workout. this helps with recuperation. then, as in before we add weight each workout, this time aiming to break records on the fourth or fifth 3 sets of 3 workout.

    sometimes we cycle on down to 1 set of three for two or three workouts, other times we have an offloading week then start with the five sets of five again.

    i proably left some things out, i always seem to. however, although there are other programs that i am sure are effective, i have used alot of leg training programs and this one i know works, i have used this routine on probably over 100 athletes with success all around. it is not unusual for an athlete to increase their leg strength 100lbs in the full squat in the first six months i work with them.

    now i know of other people who have tried this program on my recomendation in the track and field world, and not have the success i have had. however they always make the same mistakes, either starting on week one with max weights and not taking a week or two or even three to work up to max weights, OR, they start in on the 3 sets of 3 with too heavy a weight... you have to adjust the volume. dont be in too much of a hurry.

    be content to set records on week 3, not week 1. well thats about it, but if your patient and do it right, it will be effective."....wow that was a mouthful ok, that is what i was talking about, although in that post i didnt explain a couple of things that i would like to now.

    as you see from reading that, were talking about 4-6 weeks basically of a prep phase, and 3-5 weeks of a peaking phase, so its not really an 8 week program all the time. every time i write this program out, its a bit different, thats because its not a set in stone thing, but an example of a training philosophy... and it can and is altered in the details for individuals. however, there is one important point concerning what can be altered and still get the desired effects.

    during the initial phase where 5 sets of 5 are used, you must stick to the written workout frequency and volume. no matter what, do the required sets 3 times a week. if you feel like your really dieing, then cut the weight back. but in the initial portion, the volume and frequency shouldnt be messed with. now, when you go to the sets of 3, you need to begin with the weight specified, and go up each workout, and you should be fairly rested each workout.

    that means that you MAY be able to squat 2 times a week at this point, however you may need to squat once every 4 or 5 days, depends on the individual. also, 3 sets of 3 is a good volume for the first week of this phase, but often people react better to 2 or even one top set per workout during the second, third, or 4th weeks of this phase. during this phase, its the opposite of the first phase, he weight increases are the important thing.

    take enough rest between workouts and cut the workout volume enough to assure that you are recovered enough to raise the weight. hope this clarifies a bit. the 3 day a week program i wrote was an example of a basic 3 day a week program for a relative beginner. i meant it to be done without any other assistance work except maybe abs. of course, an advanced lifter would probably not do that workout exactly as written.

    as far as the "peaking" part of the squat program, i usually use this with shot-putters and athletes like that, and dont neccessarily do it with a program like the 3 day a week program, although if you were doing that and wanted to "peak" a particular exercise, it would work.

    basically, if you are not going to try to peak strength, you need to be more carefull when doing the 5 sets of 5 three days a weeek, and not get the weights up so heavy that you start to overtrain... a more gradual increase in weighs is called for, and you must use a little common sense and not push so hard you need rest... when trying to peak you just push and keep pushing on the last couple of weeks of the 5 by 5... you push right to the brink ov overtraining basically, then back the volume and frequency off with the sets of 3.
  3. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Dual Factor Theory


    Two Factor Theory hate to butt in here, but let me explain what i think are the important things about these theories... given the one factor theory, which looks at physical ability as, or course, one factor, you are left with the problem of timing workouts to correspond to the supercompensation wave... anything sooner or later will lead to a useless workout.

    Given the two factor theory, which seperates physical fitness or prepardness and fatigue, you see that the timing of individual workouts it is unimportant to long term gains... in other words regardless of whether or not fatigue is or is not present, fitness can still be increased...

    what is important to note is that there is almost universal agreement amoung scientists and athletes and coaches in all sports EXCEPT bodybuilding that the two factor theory is correct and the single factor theory is not correct and is in fact suitable only for beginners to follow when planning training.

    it is also important to note that most athletes in most sports are experiencing some level of constant fatigue ALWAYS, except for maybe a couple of weekends a year, when they are peaking. training takes place daily against a backdrop of fatigue... animal, concerning the single and dual factor training theories you asked about earlier... i dont think the bodybuilding community has altogether ignored the latter... in fact i think that the HST that ******* has talked about seems to be taking advantage of this principle.

    basically the most real-world and practical advice i can give you concerning the dual factor theory is this. instead of thinking of each workout as one seperate "fatigueing" session, followed by a seperate "recovery" session of a day or two of rest... begin thinking in terms of weeks. in other words, you have one, or two or even three weeks which are "fatigueing" in other words you think of this time period just the same way as some people think of one workout.

    you accumulate fatigue the whole time, you never completely recover. then you have another time period of recovery. this is another one, two or three weeks in which you train with reduced frequency, volume, or intensity and allow recovery to take place.

    personally i favor keeping intensity high, drastically lowering volume, and slightly lowering frequency.

    in any event the overall training stress is lower. so you have say two 3 week periods which you approach like you would have approached two days, one a workout day and one a rest day.

    now, of course in programming for elite athletes it gets much more complicated than thsi. you may also have a 6 month "overload" period, during which you have a series of 5 week periods each consisting of 3 weeks of hard work and 2 weeks of lower stress training. then you may have another 3 or 4 month period of "recovery" consisting of 1 week of "loading" or hard work, then 1 or 2 weeks of reduced training.

    all this may be superimposed upon 3 years of slightly harder overall work, in other words slightly higher volume overall... then 1 year of slightly lower volume.

    this fits into the fact that the olympics are every 4 years and athletes want to hit their highest performance at the olympics. the greeks do 3 loading weeks followed by 1 unloading week (approx 12 workouts a week during loading, and 9 workouts a week during unloading, also all weights are lowered by about 10kilos during the unloading week)... these are "loading" months, then every 4th month is an "unloading" month consisting of only 1 loading week and 3 unloading weeks. close to a big competition like the olympics... they switch to alternating weeks, 1 loading week followed by 1 unloading week.

    however, to actually program sets and reps... this is very individual. what is unloading to me may be highly stressfull to you. but this is how training is programmed for the majority of athlets in sports other than BB and powerlifting. fatigue is gradually accumulated and then gradually disipated... i would encourage you or anyone else to take a look at the HST training protocol... as it is the first BB specific program i have ever seen that seems to be set up on these principles. people doing it seem to be making gains, so i assume it is the correct volume for a majority of bbers... of course individual adjustment is usually required with programs like this.

    personally... when adjusting volume for individuals i am lucky in that i can use testosterone/cortisol ratios from weekly blood draws and also glutamine/glutamate ratios to assist in determining the stress level of the training for an individual athlete. this allows me to be pretty precise in loading an athlete to his limit without crossing the line into real overtraining... then determining the correct volume of training for the unloading period so that recovry takes place without any detraining.

    unfortunately i doubt any of you have the rescources to do this or the expertise to interpret the data correctly if you did have access to it. HOWEVER... i do have some "rule of thumb" guidlines... during loading, if you are capable of setting personal records... your not loading hard enough. on the other hand, if performance falls below 85% for more than one or two workouts in a row... then you need to lighten the load.

    the length of the loading period is also individual. start with one week to 10 days... after youve gone through a couple of cycles experiment with 2 and 3 week loading periods. very few people can handle a 3 week loading period. i know i cant. howeer the bulgarians and greeks do, so i know some great athletes can do it, and maybe some of you can.

    as far as unloading... you should be approaching peak performance after 7-10 days of unloading... you should have peak performance somewhere between 14 and 21 days of unloading.

    you dont always want to allow peak performance. you may want to follow 2 or 3 consecutive loading cycles without every allowing complete recover during unloading, if you are really advanced... however i dont recomend this for beginners to this type of training... load then unload long enough to set new personal records... allow another week or two to get good and rested then load again.

    hope this helps explain how this is used in the real world... sorry but its just impossible to get into sets and reps on a specific basis... but if you copied the 8 week squat program i posted several times a while back this is an example of this type of training, and its a proven and result producing program.
  4. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Increasing vertical jump


    Jump, Run, especially Jump not quite all correct info, hardcharger. the fact is, how much AAS will help your vertical is in large part determined by your strength deficit during a vertical jump, by this i mean the difference between the maximal force possible for you to exert isometrically in a jumping position, and the maximum amount of force you can exert at the speed of movement neccessary to actually execute a jump. steroids exert more influence on the muscular system than the neural system... so if your strength deficit is large, then the added weight of extra muscle will likely give you little or no extra jumping ability!!! now, having said that, no matter what your strength deficit in a jump is, drugs can help you jump higher, but it is even more important to train correctly for athletic events when useing drugs than when not using drugs. this is because when speed of movement is the property desired, you need to be specific because extra muscle added in areas where it is not needed will not help, it will slow you down and we all know that drugs help add muscle fast. now the first thing you must analyze when training to jump, is whether you need more maximal strength or not. if you can squat 500lbs and have a 20inch vertical, i would suggest you do not. you have plenty of strength, you are just unable to use it when jumping. if you have a 200lb squat and skinny legs and can jump 30 inches, you are probably able to use a high percentage of your available strength during a jump. and therefore, more maximal strength will be of use to you. now, no matter which catagory you fall into, you want to use the training enhancement effects of AAS to build as much jumping power as possible. this means training more for maximal strength if needed, and more for explosive power if needed. but in either case, you need to be specific. train with movements that allow quick conraction, dont heavily involve the anaerobic energy systems, and mimik the jumping motion. squats are the cornerstone of most programs... of course you want to use heavier weight if you need to build maximal strength and lighter weight done more explosively if you dont. but either way, squat. plyos... these DO NOT burn a lot of calories done correctly. they are hard on the system... they primarily work by enhancing the stretch reflex, and dont need to be done all the time. two weeks every couple of months is sufficient. bounding and agility drills... these should be done every day. all types of hopping, one leg hopping, bounding, etc. these are like low intensity plyos,a nd exert a positive influence on both the muscular and neural system. when i train volleyball players to jump higher, i use a 8-10 week cycle, where basic strength is emphasised first... since most young female volleybell players dont have a surplus of it, and we use a couple of weeks of sets of 5 in the squat done 3 times a week with light weight just for conditioning... during this time we also do a lot of low intensity drills such as two legg jumps over hurdles... basically the first two weeks we are conditioning the body for wha twill come. weeks 3 through 5 are the primary strength weeks, squats 3 times a week for multiple sets of 2 or 3 reps. during this time we increase the intensity of the drills, going from two leg jumps and hops to one leg jumps and hops, and adding in frog jumps, but i keep the volume really low on this to allow for strength gain from the squats. weeks 6 and 7 are the high intensity plyo weeks, we do depth jumps primarily, jumping off a box onto the floor with an immediete rebound and jump. we do quite a bit of this and all other training is reduced to minimal levels. we squat once each week for low intensity, just to maintain conditioning. weeks 8 and 9 and 10 are taper weeks, the plyos are real hard and requir rest to recover from. we include a few sessions of low intensity squatting, and some low intensity drills of two legged hopping. we do just enough squats and drills to maintain strength and conditioning, were not really pushing very hard at all these weeks. at the end of week 10 we test for improvements and then do it all again, as long as there is time in the off season. as you can see, increasing vertical is more complicated than upping your squat, at least if you are already at a high level or if you want the biggest bang for your buck. you need to increase strength, teach your body to apply it at high speed, increase the strength of the stretch reflex, and then allow your body to rest from the difficult training needed to accomplish all these things. throughout all this, you need to maintain strength and conditioning even while concentrating on only one specific quality, or while resting. if you dont do this you will NOT be as successfull in subsequent cycles. through coaching many camps for several different types of athletes, at all levels, i have maintained an average increase in vertical of a bit ofver 6 inches the first time through my program, which is usually 10 weeks. i do not think this is equalled by any others in my field. i think even vermiel who is the strength coach for the chicago bulls only gets a 3 or 4 inch increase on average in the camps he runs, so i know my approach works. i wont take the credit for it, as i largely copied it from mr verkoshansky, who used it with much success in the 70's and 80's in eastern europe. the main difference between the method i use and the method others use today is that i work harder on each individual quality needed for jumping, but i seperate them into blocks, making the work on each specific quality short and intense. most others work each quality concurently for the whole program, working everything less intensly but for a longer time.
  5. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Different types of hypertrophy


    Hypertrophy: guys, i wrote this in responce to a question on the think muscle board... i thought it might be of interest to some of you here. if not, well no harm done i guess. there are basically 3 trainable factors involved in size and strength. sarcoplasmic hypertrophy... does not directly increase strength but can effect it by increasing tendon angle at the attachment. but of course increases size. sarcomere hypertrophy... increases contractile proteins in muscle thereby increasing strength directly and also size. neural effeciency... increase in the percentage of motor units that can be activated at any given time. no effect on size but increases strength. the training for each quality exists on sort of a continuim. training for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is high volume and low intensity... like 10 sets of 10 for a muscle. training for sarcomere hypertrophy is med intensity and med volume... like 5 sets of 5 for a muscle. training for increased neural effeciency is high intensity and low volume... like 5 max effort singles for a given muscle. now, each style of training effects each muscle quality, but in different quantities. for example, 10 sets of 10 will result in a high degree of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, some sarcomere hypertrophy, and little or no increase in neural effeciency. 5 sets of 5 will increase all 3 qualities, but will effect sarcomere hypertrophy the most. max effort singles will increase neural effeciency a great deal, but will have only a small effect on hypertrophy of the sarcomere, and little or no effect on sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. so no matter how you train, you are likely to get both bigger and stronger... but the degree to which each quality is increased depends on the training. as you get more advanced, the picture changes somewhat. for example, if a highly trained explosive athlete, like a shot-putter, did only workouts of 10 sets of 10 for a month, he would get hypertrophy of the sarcoplasm... but likely NO hypertrophy of the sarcomere and would likely LOSE neural effeciency, simply because he was so highly trainind in this quality beforehand that 10 sets of 10 would not be sufficient stimulus to even keep what neural effeciency he had. also... for a beginner, doing multiple singles would likely lead to some size increases. but for an advanced bodybuilder it would not be sufficient stimulus to keep the sarcoplamic hypertrophy already present. now, as far as whether training for one quality helps subsequent training for another quality, the answer is yes. for instance, an athlete who is only concerned with explosive strength will still train at times with higher reps and experience some sarcoplamic hypertrophy... this "supports" later gains in sarcomere hypertrophy and neural effeciency by building work capacity (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy adds the neccessary ingredients such as cappillaries to the muscle to support high work capacity later in the training cycle, so the athlete can do a higher volume of work). also, a bodybuilder who is only concerned with size will do most of his work with volumes and intensities of training which favor hypertrophy of both the sarcomere and the sarcoplasm. but heavy work done to increase neural effeciency will also help... the ability to activate more motor units during an all out effort will make the rest of his training more result producing and effecient. as far as how to "cycle" these different types of work during a training cycle... well at almost all times during a training cycle you should do at least SOME work on each quality... if you totally neglect some portion of the muscle you will lose performance in that quality. however, you should shift your concentration of work from the least important quality for your sport over time to the most important. in other words... a bodybuilder might begin training for a contest 6 months away with more high intensity work, and gradually shift the emphasis over the months to more med. and low intensity work. a strength athlete would do the opposite. hope this helped in some way.

  6. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Barbell rows


    Rows: Well, the best way to do them is to start with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows.

    This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curlsyou always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak.

    The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast. I have trained many people who could do this exercise with 350 or more lbs. I myself have done reps with 425, Ed Coan, who also knows how to do them properly, has done reps with over 500lbs without his back ever coming above parallel with the ground. That is stronger than Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman, by the way.

    I did rows with Coleman once, actually, and I was far stronger than he was. He could not do more than 350lbs strictly although he could do over 500lbs by standing almost all the way up at the completion of each rep. Ed Coan is probably the strongest person on these, although one power-lifter I trained did manage 525 for a double done strictly.

    Rows look at an anatomy chart. if the scapula and upper arms are held in a constant position, shortening of the lats WILL result in arching of the middle and upper back. i AM NOT saying that the lats are primarily responsible for upper back flexion... what i am saying is that they can assist in this.

    i also HAVE done EMG work on various different rowing techniques... and there is not doubt that rows performed as i describe them will activate the lats more completely than done any other way i have ever seen. i have done EMG work on a large quantity of people for rows... and ive always found that these kind of rows activate the lats most completely. and besides, even if you dont buy the fact that they activate the lats better, hell, you can always be content with the fact that your getting an erector workout.
  7. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Heavy vs Light


    Heavy vs. Light this is a common observation... but the intensity you use while training doesnt change the muscle "shape", however, people who do heavy, multijoint exercises like deadlifts, squats, rows, etc, build the muscles that make you seem thick, like the abdominal muscles, the spinal erectors and the middle and upper back, the glutes, hamstrings, etc. people who do mostly isolation exercises and dont go heavy enough to really challenge the bodies core or the stabilizer muscles usually have bigger arms, chest, quads, but lack the development in the other muscles in the body.

    in my mind, the way to tell if a guy has trained hard is to look at their spinal erectors. its impossible to do the "big" exercises for years without developing big, strong erectors. i know this may be a little different than most people, but i think guys who have big pecs and arms, but have NO spinal erectors, no abdominal hypertrophy, big quads but flat hamstrings, wide shoulders but no traps, etc, just look stupid. i just plain dont like that look. a big pair of legs ought to have a lot of adductor mass, big hamstrings, etc. a wide back ought to have big traps and big erectors. it just doesnt look right if you dont have complete development.

    i hate to shamelessly plug the owner of this board, but there is a pic of him. now im not a BBer and ill admit i would not train for that look. and i will also say that he s not a really, really massive guy. however, i think that he looks like what a BBer ought to look like, at least from what i could see from the front. unlike a lot of "recreational" bodybuilders you see, his thighs arent all quads, hes got a lot of adductor mass, and i bet hes got hamstrings to since i doubt he got those adductors without squatting and deadlifting correctly.

    if you look at his upper body, he doesnt just have big "pecs" out of proportion to everything else like a lot of guys who do more benching than everything else put together, the guys got traps, shoulders, etc, all his muscles are proportional to each other. i dont know what he looks like from the back, but i bet hes got good erectors and back thickness since i doubt he got traps like that without doing deadlifts and rows. overall, the guy looks really good and proportional, like i would envision what a BBer ought to look like.

    of course, i will admit, that when i see a guy like *******, who obviously has done a few squats, has strong legs, has obvioulsy done a lot of pulling like deadlifts and rowing etc., looks pretty athletic, is that its just such a damn shame that hes into BBing, cause i bet hed make a great olympic lifter or discus thrower or something like that! if i ever meet *******, i guarantee you ill try to teach him to snatch! oh well, just another potential champion lifter lost to the dark side!
  8. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member



    various stuff 1. heard all the ruckus about IP stuff and infection... heard it before about mexican gear. ive used all the mexican gear, recently used some IP cyp and prop/suspension blend. no infection ever, no horror stories. recent IP use was just as it came to me, no heating or filtering, just opened the package, rubbed the top with alchohol, and shot it. minimal pain, minimal lump in my ass, no problems. the prop did sting a little, but hell it hurt less than some lifts do in the gym, so who gives a rats ass? 2. know a "buddy" thats been doing the HST thing, big strength gains and about 15lbs of weight gain after a 6 week cycle. no drugs. all you guys who havnt tried this ought to at least read about it and consider the fact that it does seem to work for a lot of people. 3. im so sick and tired of hearing people who just started training who say they cant gain weight. jeez ive heard this crap so often. every day it seems i have some stupid kid ask me about how to gain weight... in resturants, at the grocery store, yo uname it. for some reason there seems to be a sign on my back or something. usually i know its worthless to talk to them, sometimes i actually waste my time. talked to a kid at the golden corral a couple of days ago. took almost an hour when i should have been enjoying my all you can eat steak night... 3 days later i see him in the gym when i just happened to go in to talk to a friend who i knew was there... kid was there doing preacher curls. said hi to me, then said well i talked to my friend about what you said and he said he tried it once and overtrained so i decided to do this thing i read about... on the other hand about 6 months ago i talked to this 6' tall, 150lb kid who wanted to know about getting stronger. kid had done well in judo, won some titles, also after that had done cycling, turned pro then quit a year later, quite a good road racer. he actually did what i told him i guess, about 3 months after i saw him the first time i saw hiim again, he weighed about 185... he wanted to try olympic weightlifting so i let him train with the team i coach. now hes weighing 204 and clean and jerking about 300lbs, 54lbs gained in 6 months. no drugs. olympic squat from 175lbs to 385lbs, front squat from 150lbs to 330lbs. hell be a good lifter, has a good work ethic. needs to be 240 and fairly lean, will compete eventually in the 231 pound class. will take about another 12-15 months i suppose. why is a kid like this the exception and not the rule? why will kids do the same old thing for years in the abscense of results, and not try anything new? what the hell is wrong with people. there is a gym in town, i know the owner so i go and talk to him sometimes, there are all these kids in there, skinny little fucks, doing curls. they never progress, you see the same faces one year to the next, same bodies too. my biggest problem has always been keeping the weight of my lifters down. i usually know what weight class they should be in based on height and build... we get them there then they are always dieting to keep weight down! i have a 77kilo kid (169) who will be on the pan-american team this year if he can keep his weight under control. when he started he was 145lbs. now hes a real solid 180, abs like crazy at 180lbs. he cuts weight like crazy to get to 169... thatys always the problem, keeping weight under control. oh well, guess im done ranting about that. stupid people. who needs them. 4. i constantly hear about people crashing after a cycle. i often cant use clomid after cycle, because of drug testing. ive been off for i guess about 12 weeks... actually just started new cycle yesterday. anyway, at end of last cycle i finally got to 370lbs, now im 355. after 12 years of HARD training i was 330, so id guess im definately over my natural limit. but i really dont "crash"... i feel good coming off even with no clomid, maintain strength, and after the initial loss of about 10lbs of water, i maintain weight pretty well. i think this is because of training style. i really do. ive disussed this with many of you privately. the more people i talk to who use drugs, both who train similarly to me and who dont, the more i see a trend. 5. i know ill start a can of worms with this, but i recently did testing for a collegiate basketball team, including vertical testing. two highest verticals on the team were 33" and 32". yet everyone on the internet can jump 40". why is that? 6. ill brag here a little. one of the cyclists i train is quickly approaching the worlds best. hes about #5 in the world right now in one event... he squats 300lbs for 50 reps to a depth that can best be described as ending with the knees in the armpits. hes not that big a guy, either. there were some workouts where he was on the platform squatting, with 5 or 6 weightlifters around him. hed get maybe 25 reps, dump the bar. two guys would pick it up and put it back on his back in about 5 seconds. hed want to quit. but hed have 5 guys screaming in his face, calling him a puss, challenging him. hed get maybe two more reps, dump the bar again. again we would pick it up, put it back on him. this would go on and on. he puke. we would all step back to avoid stepping in it and slipping. we would put the bar back on him. hed get one more. this went on and on. now he says he envisions that when at the end of a race. hes got a contract with a big pro team and is making good money. guess it shows that hard work pays off. 6. i hear a bit about drinking beer on cycle. i drink about 2 beers every night. all relevent values normal. i do normally use dbol on about every other cycle, others are test only. even with dbol and 2 beers a day, no abnormal values on blood tests. draw your own conclusions... not everyones the same but i think if you keep it under control, have a beer or two. if your trying to build muscle, you shouldnt be drinking a 12 pack anyway. 7. everyone always has stories about fights, which leaves me feeling left out, cause im a boring guy. but a week ago i did go and get drunk at a bar, first time in years. didnt get into a fight, but i did break one up. i guess im still boring. bouncers didnt want them to fight, but in my drunken state i figured if they wanted to have at it, then it was their right to do so... so i took them outside, let them fight till one was on the ground, then made them both go home. quite funny now that i think about it. my friends think i should be a bouncer for extra money, but who needs the headaches? well, talk to you all later.
  9. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member


    TOPIC 11: FOOD

    ive got no superior knowledge on the subject, but i noticed in the original post somewhere he said he took in 300g of protein, not many carbs, and only 10% fat. and ate 3500 or 4500 cals. not possible. 300grams of protein is 1200 calories. hes either eating way more carbs or fat than he thinks.

    what i have my athletes who are in strength-power sports eat is milk, meat, some other protein sources if wanted, and lots of vegatables... some fruit but not a lot and breads/pastas kept to a bare minimum. add in more starches when you want to gain weight, cut them back when you want to lose.

    a good meal is this... go to walmart and buy the big economy bag of chopped mixed vegatbles. then buy some chicken breasts and lean cuts of beef or lamb or other meats you like. cut one or two different kinds of meat into little chunks. cook in olive oil till just about done... if using chicken put it in first so its well done first and everything else is lightly cooked.steam the vegatables, use some spices, ginger actually is nice. stir it all together and cook it a bit in the olive oil (just briefly, just a bit of olive oil). now you can fix this in about 15 or so minutes. you can fix enough for 4 or 5 meals at one time if you have the right size equipmenmt in your kitchen. this is what i recomend for those wanting to gain strength without gaining a bunch of fat.

    i dont like eating out of a blender. eat meat, enough for the protein you need. fill up on vegatebles. save the starches for special occasions, eat apples or something like that for snacks. eat about 4 meals a day with meat and vegatebles. eat a couple of snacks, a piece of cheese and an apple is a good snack, a glass of milk and an orange is a good snack.

    by the way, my wife is a registered dietician, and also a national record holder in powerlifting, and shes a good enough discuss thrower that still at age 32 she could walk on to just about any college program in the US and get a scholarship. and she hasnt thrown seriously in years. even when not training hard, she can squat ass to ankles double bodyweight for 10 reps without a belt. so she knows about nutrition, and how it relates to athletic performance. and if you could talk to her she would also tell you that the ideal diet for most athletes is meat and vegatbles mainly, with enough starches thrown in to maintain weight or gain weight if needed.

    i know that most of you eat out of a blender half the time, but damn it food is good. i look forward to eating if its good food... and i dont care how engineered anything is, its not the same as real food, yes the protein is there, the calories are there, but you dont get as complete nutrition from a can or box as you do from real food. eating good food, nutrition rich food is healthy. and healthy people do better in the weight room. and if you ever have the chance try mongolian food, do it. geez that stuff is good.
  10. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member



    intensity one thing i have noticed over the years is that some lifters need much more emotional arousal to lift top weights than others. i have also noticed that it is the emotional arousal itself, not the lifts, that brings on fatigue, and possibly overtraining. consider this. in lifters who can lift 95-100% weights without getting "psyched up", there is usually the ability to lift these top weights very often, sometimes daily, without undue fatigue. however, with lifters who need considerable emotional arousal to lift these weights, they CANNOT be lifted often, certainly not more than once a week. this obviously leads one to the conclusion that the emotional arousal itself, not the weights lifted, is the mechanism leading to fatigue. before anyone flys off the handle, ill admit that one can overtrain without getting psyched up if they try, and the physical stress of lifting obviously plays a part, i am only saying that the EMOTIONAL arousal plays a bigger part than most would consider. now, i consider it a truism that it is not sensible to let your ability to lift with or without emotional arousal determine your lifting frequency or volume. in other words, psyching yourself out of your mind every time you squat to get your best possible poundage, then simply accepting the fact that you can only squat once every 10 days is not sensible. personally, i limit pssyching up in training. true, i support a businesslike atmosphere, and yell and scream at liftes daily. but i DO NOT let lifters pace for 3 minutes working themselves into a frenzy before a lift. just go up to the bar and lift it is in my opinion the best training strategy. what does this have to do with all of you? well i know that some of you feel unable to train very often. i know that "overtraining", loss of motivation, etc, are subjects discussed somewhat regularly on this board and by lifters everywhere. my suggestion if you have experienced this or are experiencing it, is to not only look at your workouts, but look at your attitudes and arousal during your workouts. try to do 2 or 3 weeks of training where you DO NOT psych yourself up prior to sets. you may find several things. you might find that you just plain feel better out of the gym, not so "drained" and tired as usuall. you might find that you are able to handle more training volume. and finally, you will almost surely find that in time you will increase your ability to lift heavy weithts without psyching yourself up, it is in fact a learned ability. and when this happens, youll find you have the best of both worlds, youll be lifting as heavy as possible, without draining yourself emoutionally. youll feel better, youll lift better and be albe to lift more and more often... and youll find that your mental state in everyday life is just plain better. and finally, PLAN your all out, crazy, psyche up and frothing at the mouth workouts. itll be a pleasant change of pace every couple of weeks! itll be something to look forward to, not just the daily grind
  11. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Training while on AAS


    ive heard quite a few stories lately about injuries of the muscular and tendon tearing type while on AAS lately. had an aquaintence thats not on meso also tear a bicep a couple of days ago... was up about 40lbs on curls after 5 weeks on IP susp/prop and the thing just tore in half.

    well ive conversed with many of you in the past about my feelings that its better to up the volume of training while on juice than it is the intensity and poundages, and the increased ability of the body to keep gains if its done this way. ive also heard many people that IM me or email me express disbelief when they hear me say that im in week 5 or 6 of a cycle and havnt tried a new max yet.

    but heres the thing. i really believe that its inviting injury to push the poundages early in a cycle, and its unneccessary also. add sets, add reps, add workouts, add volume. do this for the first 2/3 or 3/4 of the cycle. let your body get used to the new levels of muscular tension being developed. add a reasonable amount to your max, or your 5 rep max, or whatever at the end of the cycle... when your ready for it, and not as soon as you can do it.

    im not going to go on and on about this, but i really think if people were more patient, and more willing to stick to a plan instead of looking for that quick ego boost of benching or curling 10 more lbs as soon as that juice hits their system, then they would have a lot less chanced of getting hurt.
  12. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Training and food

    TOPIC 15: Food and Training

    let me just piss off a number of people right off the bat by saying that i totally disagree with anyone who says that food is as important as training in growing muscle.

    ive heard a great number of people assert this, and its just crap, in my opinion. i know so damn many people that eat totally like crap, yet train hard and gain... but i dont know anyone who gains without training hard, unless they are a rank beginner, and thats a whole other story, since a beginner wint have to eat right to gain either.

    now, to back this up a bit, let me say that the most elite athletes in the world have notoriously bad dietary habits. yeah, thats right. those elite weightlifters, skiiers, wrestlers, etc, eat like crap. if there is any common ground amoung all the sports that have resident athletes at the olympic training center, its the concern over getting decent food into the athletes. most of the top throwers i have known ate fast food, and not enough of it most of the time... most powerlifters eat like crap. if there is anything that elite olympic lifters ahve in common, its smoking, and worrying more about what beer they are going to drink than what they are having for dinner.

    but, you might say, this may very well prove that gaining strength, skill, endurance, and even muscle mass isnt really tied to a perfect diet, as long as you get ennough calories... BUT bodybuilding is different because of the low bodyfat required while maintaining high amounts of muscle mass.

    well let me ask you this. what stops more people from attaining a physique that looks like a bodybuilder, not enough muscle, or too much fat... and which is easier to remedy? the answer is obvious. going from 160lbs of lean body mass to 230lbs of lean body mass is a lot harder than going from 15% bodyfat to 7% bodyfat.

    if your not ready to accept this, then answer this question. lets say that i was a magic genie, and could give you either the muscle mass and of ronnie coleman, or his bodyfat level. now, if i gave you his muscle mass, youd still be as fat as you are now, on top of all that muscle, and would have to lose the fat to look like him. if i gave you his bodyfat level, you would still have your present muscle mass and would have to gain the muscle yourself to look like him. which would you choose? if you didnt pick the muscle, your kidding yourself.

    so what have i said so far... first, that getting big and strong, while undoubtedly helped along by a good diet, arent at all dependant on teh "scientific" and exacting diet plans that most people would hold up as ideal, in fact, getting big and strong seems to happen on a frequent basis to people whose only concern with food is that they get enough of it and that it tasts tood...

    and second, that getting really big, and probably pretty strong as well, is the hardest part of being a bodybuilder. staying lean, or getting lean, are both not easy, but they arent the main challenge to the guy just starting out who want s to step onstage someday.

    so there you have it... training, what you do and how hard you do it, is the most important thing in bodybuilding as in any sport. food, rest, other recovery techniques, self confidence boosters, EVERYTHING else, in fact, are just there to support the training. the training is the main thing.
  13. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Weaker bodyparts

    TOPIC 16: Bringing up weaker bodyparts

    i hear a lot of guys who want to bring up specific body parts, like chest, or biceps, or calves, or whatever, to match the rest of the body.

    now sometimes, when they talk about this, especially when they are talkinga bout legs, you find that they arent training very hard and they just plain need to train harder. but it aint very often you hear guys wanting to bring up the legs or back, no matter how stick legged or thin they are from front to back. no, usually they want to bring up the chest or arms, and usually yooull find that they are already training these bodyparts pretty hard.

    well, theres nothing wrong with trying new things, and progress can be made, though with arms in particular progress is usually made with doing less and eating more, but thats besides the point. where i see people derailing their overall traininng plan... is when they get so damn focussed on one little thing that isnt up to par, that their overall training suffers.

    lets examine some facts. most people dont have ideal genetics. many people, almost all people in fact, have at least one bodypart which will NEVER match the rest of their physique. if you had perfect genetics youd be standing alongside ronnie coleman, but there arent many like him. so chances are, that your weak point, take your arms, for instance, will never be a strong point. some people just werent born with the ability to have "purty" arms, just like some people werrnt born with the ability to have big calves... you can get them better, but theyll never match the rest of your body.

    ive seen so many people bang their head against a wall and just short circut their entire training plan to try to turn a weak point into a strong point, it just makes me sick. now, im not saying that because you didnt have arms that ballooned to 20 inches in a year, to give up. hell no. what im saying is that sometimes you need to just face reality. say youve been training 5 years, know what your doing, and your big and strong, but although your triceps are fairly strong, they jyust arent massive and they are short, they dont "hang over the elbow" so to speak... then dont short-circut the resto f your training trying anything to get big triceps. deal with the fact that nature gave you a short muscle belly in the tricep, and it aint going to be your strong point because of it.

    i guess what im trying to say is, deal with what nature gave you. make the best of what you have, but dont give yourself a nervous breakdown ovr trying to CHANGE what you have. that cant be done. you can improve your body, but not change its structure.

    personally, im a big guy... but ive got a big bone structure. my wrists are almost 10inches. so i can get pretty big... but ill never look "freaky" like some of the guys with real little joints and tiny waists. thats fine. my arms have always been big, even before i trained. they are about 23inches now, and i dont train them. but even back when i trained my chest a lot, it was never "developed" in the inner or upper regions to much extent... yeah i did exercises that hit this part, but it just never grew much, hell my biceps grew more from incline benches than my upper chest. ive got big knee jjoints, and long tendons on the vastus lateralis... so ill never have that "muscle hanging over ther knee" look that some do, even though my things are 34inches. just not my structure. but i dont derail my training trying desperately to bring up what i am never going to get. sure, id like to have "prettier" legs i guess, and i would like to have smaller biceps and more upper chest and shoulder muscle (more specific to my sport)... but this is the way my body is and i cant change it. ive trained a lot of different ways and for several different sports, and with the exception of getting bigger, my overall shape hasnt changed all that much. i had big arms, a wide, fairly flat chest with more lower chest than upper chest, big traps, and wide shoulders but not as much front delt as youd think... as a powerlifter, a thrower, a highland games athlete, an olympic lifter, etc. i had this structure when i trained arms all the time, i had it when i never trained arms. i had it when i concentrated on flat benches as a powerlifter, incline benches a s a thrower, and did no benches a s an olympic lifter. i had it when i could barely military press 250lbs as a powerlifter, i have it now that im almost to 400lbs on the military press.

    your never going to look like the other guy in the gymn or the guy in the magazine. your going to look like you, only bigger. but youll havbe a much better chance to get bigger if you accept your own genetics, and seek to improve YOUR OWN body... within its abilities and limitations, instead of banging your head against the wall trying to break free of what you were born with.
  14. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member


    TOPIC 17: Injuries

    freddy wanted me to post this, so i will i suppose. ive had a few injuries over the years, ill post as time allows what they were and how i recovered from them. i guess ill start with the first and probably the worst.

    i got shot at close range in the stomach when i was a freshman in high school during a family disagreement. bullet basically exploded on impact, had a couple of holes in my aeorta, 30+ holes in both large and small intestine, liver damage, spleen damage, and other things. a fragment of the bullet also nicked my spinal cord and became lodged in my spinal column and was not able to be surgically removed.

    becasue of the spinal cord damage, i was left with numbness in my left leg, mostly the lower leg and the buttocks. also the neural innervation to one head of my hamstring muscle was destroyed, allowing 1/3 of my left hamstring to basically whither away and never return. the innervation to the lower leg muscles which pronate and flex the ankle were also affected, though not as much... but they still dont work completely right.

    i got home from the hospital after a few weeks on my back, and spent my meager savings on a home exercise machine, the cheap kind id laugh at someone else if they bought. my first week home from the hospital i busted out half the staples in my stomach straining on the machine bench press... i should mention that i was at this point weighing about 110lbs and probably using all ov about 50lbs of resistance. because of high medical bills already and no prospect of an extra trip to the doctor (we had no insurance) i used duct tape to tape my stomach together. this has always been a problem because of course my abdominal muscles had been cut through in the surgery, and the busted staples allowed them to seperate back apart, and i couldnt properly get them back together with tape. i still have a 2 inch seperateion from my sternum to my dick in my abs, right down the middle from this. it is widest right above the belly button.

    anyway, i trained twice a day on the home machine, and was using the stack for all the exericses in the little manual that came with it in a few weeks. not much of a feet, it wasnt much weight.

    i had a setback a bit after that, i was due to go back to the hospital and have the rest of the staples taken out, and i was beaten up by a family member, and punched in the side pretty hard. the doctor had originally said that the bullet fragment that had nicked my spinal column was still in contact with it, and i should not do anything that could cause it to shift for several months, after which time he though my body would build upp a bit of scar tissue around it and it would be fine. well apparently the punch caused it to shift, and put it in a place where it irritated something... ever since then i have had a small, burning pain in the small of my back where the fragment is. this pain has been with me for 16 years now, it never gets better or worse, its just like someone is sticking a hot pin in my back, 24/7, 365 days a year. long ago i learned to ignore it, its just a fact of life i cannot change.

    anyway, i trained in the house with a vengance, just to get to the point where i could walk again. i didnt want to go back to school till i could walk. i acccomplished this and was able to go back to school and makeup my work and pass my classes. but i walked with a limp and ran with a definate limp. this fact really pissed me off, i had never been interested in running before, but i was mad that now i basically couldnt. i read a lot about strength stuff, and became convinced that doing squats would help the muscles in my bad leg enough that i would be able to run properly.

    i ahd no money, but i found a couple of large posts, and used a fence hole digger to dig holes and put the posts in the ground to use for squat stands. my grandfather got me a long piece of metal that passed for a bar, and with some cheap concrete weights, i started squatting. at this point i was very enthusiastic about it and squatted in the morning and at night, pretty much every day. out in the back of the barn, in the dirt, with all my concrete weights and sore legs. i used nails in the fence posts to set the bar on, which worked fine since i was sqsuatting with at most 100lbs. it worked well enough that i got to the point where i could run with only a slight limp, and i began to run every day. i basically wanted to prove i could do it, so the next year, my sophmore year i joined the cross country team, and ran in training for cross country a 5 minute and 19 second mile, and an 11 minute and 20 second 2 mile. i never got to compete becasue i was not good enough, but i proved to myself that i could in fact run, although my foot made a weird flopping noise with every step because of the bad muscles in my lower leg not allowing me to lower my toe on each stride properly. i do in fact still have a very slight limp when i run, not much, but its still there.

    i went on to be a pretty good high school athlete, captain of the wrestling team both junior and senior year, and ranked number one in the state in wrestling most of my senior year. a seperated shoulder in the state tournament my senior year prevented a state title, but i did wrestle and beat two national champions while in high school, and was ranked nationaly by USA today in prep wrestling, and pretty heavily recruited for college wrestling.

    i sometimes wonder if i would have been as good of a high school athlete without the injury. i actually dont think so. it pissed me off so much to not be able to do things, it kind of lit a fire in me. im not glad it happened, hell its hampered me a bit in everything ive done. try setting up for an 800lb squat when you cant flex your left ankle, or try jumping backwards under a 375lb snatch with the same condition, it is a bitch, but its doable if you really want to. but the fact is, i think thats the thing that really set me on the path towards trying to excell as an athlete... if it would have been easy i dont think id have done it, as weird as that may sound.

    and almost dieing gives you a certain perspective, even when you are stupid and 15 years old. kind of makes you want to do something, and not just slide through life. every medical person who came in contact with me during the initial few hours told me they couldnt believe i lived, said they had never seen anyone live with an injury like that. so it kind of woke me up a bit.

    one other positive aspect was that it taught me to rely on myself. at a young age i was basically almost killed by the people a person is supposed to be able to trust. this has stuck with me throughout life. since this incident, ive been pretty much a self motivated person, and learned to value myself and my accomplishments by my own standards, which i think is a valuable and good thing. i think my personality would have been a lot different had this not happened, and i like the way i am now so in a way im glad things happened the way they did

    i guess freddys desire in my posting this was something to do with thing s not being as bad as they initially seem and overcoming problems and all that, not sure itll have the intended effect, but if anyone wants to hear more ive got plenty.
  15. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Gain weight w/ concentrics


    as most of you know, i train athletes and not bodybuilders, so often the methods i use are geared mostly towards strength with little regard to gaining size, or even geared specifically toward gaining strength WITHOUT any size gain for athletes in specific weight classes.

    that having been said, i usually ahve a hard time keeping weight off the guys, the volume of training we do often means that the guys must watch the diet really close to avoid growing out of their proper weight class.

    now, having said all that, there are times when i have a guy that needs to move up a weight class quickly, for instance i recently had a guy that needed to move from the 77kilo weight class to the 85kilo (or from 169lbs to 187lbs) weight class becasue in his particular divisiion the competition was actually easier at 85.

    this partic8lar guy usually trains about 10-12lbs overweight, so i actually ahd to move him from 180lbs to about 200lbs in 8 weeks, hopefully with no bodyfat increase, and of course with no drugs. i thought id share one of the ways i have acomplished this quick weight gain in the past and how i did it in this case. in case you wondered, he did acomplish this, weighed 201lbs 2 weeks before competition, and is now cutting for competition, hes weighing 195 now one week out, most of the rest well sweat off the day of weighin.

    the best way to accomplish wwight gain is with of course more food and increased training volume, but i run into a problem here becausxe my guys are squatting hard 3 days a week already, and doing maximal lifts in heavy leg and back exercises like the snatch and clean and jerk 6 days a week already... so adding volume in the conventional way would quickly result in an athlete breaking down.

    so i use an idea that didnt start with westside, but has been recently popularized by them, concentric only exercise. the good thing about this is that it seems to have a good effect on the body, but doesnt really make you sore, and doesnt seem to effect recovery that much, in some athletes it seems to even help it.

    the way i structure the workouts is this, the regular trainiing around noon, and the extra workouts around 6 or 7 pm. typical exercises are as follows.

    walking up stairs with weight, taking the elevator down. for this i have a long, thin bag filled with sand, actually several of them. an athlete takes a bag, say a 50lb bag, and walkes up 2 flights of stairs, then walks to the elevator and rides it back down.

    heavy ball throws. i have various bags and balls weighing between 20 and 100lbs. the athlete gets his arms around one on the ground, then with a clean or snatch type motion throws it up and behing them. it hits the ground, they turn around and throw it back. we usually do 10 throws at a time.

    various sled pulling. this is pure westside, they have come up with many variations of this. a couple that we use are simply to attach a rope from the sled to the waist, usually around a weight belt, and walk 40 or 50 yards taking long, straight legged strides. for the upper body, we use two ropes, each with a handle, and for instance do a bench press type motion to pull the sled forward, then walk a step, then press again, etc. or turn around and do the same thing with a row motion. we also put the rope between our legs, and face away from the sled... as you take a step, straighten the body slightly, this pulls the sled forward. take another step to take the slack out, then do it again.

    all of these things work the major muscle groups with concentric only action... adding to the workload but not compromising recovery ability that much, as long as you get extra sleep and remember to take in more food at least. using these sorts of methods seems to allow athletes to handle more workload than they could with only normal exercises, but its important i think to time the workouts right. you want to do these "extra" workouts 4-6 hours after your normal workouts if possible. i know others who have done their regular workouts in the evenings, and gotten up and done these extra workouts in the mornings and had good results, but i havent tried that much.

    i am not really sure how these types of things would work for bodybuilders... however i have to think that they would in fact work... i mean one of the reasons i dont use them more in regular training is that it tends to make it too hard to keep a guys weight down. they seem to be particularly effective for adding mass to the hamstrings, calves, glutes, and the spinal erectors and also upper back.

    one other thing, we alter the weight we use for each day much like westside does... in other words, if you do it 3 days in a row, the second day you use half the weight you used on the first day, the third day half of whay you used on the second day, and then you start over again with 100% weight. if any of you bodybuilders out there thinks about trying this, id be interested to hear how it worked for you.
    luckyduck likes this.
  16. urbadside

    urbadside Junior Member

    Very informative.....great for newbies and us more experienced bros.
  17. thick

    thick Junior Member

    big bump, glad this made it over
  18. Meathead74

    Meathead74 Junior Member

    I realize that this is a sticky, and it doesn't have to be bumped.....glad that this fucker is up here.....lots of good information.

    Meathead :eek:
  19. john primo

    john primo Junior Member

    Thank you bro. . One of the best things Ive red in a LONg time. JP
  20. NightFire1

    NightFire1 Junior Member

    So who is this JohnSmith fella, and does he post here?