Bill Roberts, Dr. Scally we need your input on this

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by Reinheart, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. Reinheart

    Reinheart Member

    Nandrolone and stanozolol damage bodybuilders' DNA

    A couple of days ago we wrote about an animal study in which a one-time injection of nandrolone decanoate caused genetic damage. Now mice are not men and genetic damage is nothing like cancer, but a 2010 Brazilian study has shown that humans can also damage their genes by using steroids.

    The researchers studied 15 young men who did weight training four times a week and used anabolic steroids. The men took a four-week course and in that period ? according to the researchers ? injected 50 mg nandrolone decanoate and took 18 mg stanozolol three times a week. [Yes, that's what it says. Maybe they recorded it incorrectly.]

    A control group of 15 bodybuilders took no steroids. Another control group of 20 young men did no training and took no steroids either.

    Two months after the steroids course the researchers took cheek swabs from each test subject, taking samples of 2000 cells. Then the researchers examined the samples under a microscope to determine how many of the cells showed signs of genetic damage. The Brazilians recorded the number of cells with pyknosis [genetic material in the cell condenses], karyolysis [genetic material dissolves] and karyorrhexis [genetic material fragments].

    The researchers also counted the number of micronucleated cells: cells with an extra small nucleus. These nuclei contain 'too much' DNA and make extra nuclei out of this. The photo below shows a micronucleated cell.

    The more micronucleated cells in a sample, and the more cells with pyknosis, karyolysis or karyorrhexis, the greater the chance of cancer developing, scientists believe.

    If you look at the table above, it looks as though strength training lowers the likelihood of genetic damage, but that steroids raise the likelihood. And that's the conclusion the Brazilians draw too.

    "Chromosomal damage and cytotoxicity are induced by anabolic steroids after 2 months of administration in oral mucosa cells", they write. "Since DNA damage and cellular death are important steps in events leading to carcinogenesis, this study represents a relevant contribution to the correct evaluation of the potential health risks associated with the consumption of anabolic steroids."

    If you compare this with other studies, however, the research results look considerably less alarming. In 2009, for example, the same Brazilians published a study in which they compared cheek swabs of petrol station attendants with those of people who did not spend their days exposed to diesel and petrol fumes. [Environ Int. 2009 Oct; 35(7): 1062-5.] The table below comes from that study.

    If you just look at the 'other nuclear alterations', then it looks as though four weeks of low doses of stanozolol and nandrolone decanoate are safer than working in a petrol station?
  2. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    And, the question?
  3. Reinheart

    Reinheart Member

    What does damaging your genes means? What kind of damage do we cause and how possible is the chance of triggering cancer from using AAS?

    Thanks in advance!
  4. solo47

    solo47 Member

    Reinie, it's well known that individuals respond very differently to the use of AAS. Some rare guys will do one short cycle and be shut-down for life. Others will run roids for years, go off, and return to normal testosterone levels in a matter of months. There is always the possibility of genetic changes, only some of which will be harmful (example, possible infertility). For most, it seems, such changes do not make themselves obvious. Anyways, I use neither nandrolone nor stanozolol since I did not like their side effects.

    In my case, I searched far & wide for any experimental connections or even statistical correlations between roid use and cancers in people. There was some speculation but I could find nothing that indicated cancers appearing in users of anabolic steroids above the rates of the general population.

    I admit I am not a medical doctor nor even a researcher (beyond on myself) but I do know how to read and write, and I feel cool enough about it all that I am planning to begin a new cycle at the end of October building up weight use as I go, even though the tumour I had removed on Aug 10 cost me 40 cm of upper large intestine.:eek:

    newbie23 and Reinheart like this.
  5. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    This is a poorly controlled study for a variety of reasons ESPECIALLY considering their absurd (IMO) conclusion!
    First: no pre-test mucusal sampling was obtained
    Second: "the nucleic mutations-fragmentations" noted are very common in epithelium undergoing rapid multiplication and is the expected result of cells approaching cellular death, the latter being VERY common in the oral pharynx!
    Third, no testing was performed to determine the observed effect on cellular function especially since "cancer cells" loose that capability.
    Fourth: no additional measures were used to ensure other factors which could have been responsible for their observations were eliminated prior to testing such as: oral trauma, smoking, chewing tobacco, medications etc.
    I will end there for the sake of brevity!
    Moreover it's VERY important to remember each time a cell divides and the DNA replicates, it has to copy and transmit the exact same sequence of nucleotides about THREE BILLION times to it's daughter cells! Considering nothing is perfect, mistakes DO OCCUR, yet fortunately a variety of polymerase enzymes correct the faulty insertion or deletion etc. However cancer (deranged cellular division and metabolism) is much more likely when the genetic code for the corrective enzymes are also involved. Fortunately a multitude of errors would have to occur in the overwhelming majority of instances for any given duplication to persist (unrecognized) resulting in a genetic MUTATION, reproduction and subsequent disease.
    Reinheart and solo47 like this.
  6. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    I love it when they come to conclusions for you; it makes you feel like a lemming.