Bio-identical versus synthetic testosterone

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by drp90210, Dec 8, 2006.

  1. #1
    drp90210

    drp90210 Junior Member

    I just read that Andrgogel uses "bio-identical" testosterone. I think that means that it was naturally derived from yams, as opposed to manufactured synthetically, but I'm not sure. In any event, I was wondering if anyone knew whether bio-identical testosterone was easier on the body or provided any other benefits over synthetic testosterone. I just switched from androgel (which uses bio-identical testosterone) to a cream (which uses testosterone of an unknown type) and I feel noticeably lousier and sometimes flushed. My estrogen and test levels just came back and are fine (to my surprise), so perhaps my symptoms have nothing to do with TRT.
     
  2. #2
    JustOne

    JustOne Junior Member

    If its methyl-testosterone then you can get insomnia and anxiety, it is not chemically identicle and has more side effects.
     
  3. #3
    zumper

    zumper Junior Member

    From gels, Testim uses T like our body produce(its own,natural),compared to enanthate and stuff like that.That's why in Testim's instructions doesn't say about a particular type of testosterone.;)
     
  4. #4
    pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Junior Member

    "bio-identical" is what you want it is the same as your body makes and is made from yams and other plants.
     
  5. #5
    Cynical Simian

    Cynical Simian Junior Member

    Ethanate is just an ester attached to (bio-identical) testosterone. Any legitimate form of TRT (gels, compounded creams/gels, injectable ethanate/cypionate/propionate or blends thereof, pellets, patches) uses "natural" testosterone, but some advertise it more loudly than others because it might boost sales a bit.

    drp90210, 1cc and others already gave you some good advice about why creams might not be working in your other thread. The issues they mentioned are much better candidates for your concern than this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  6. #6
    cpeil2

    cpeil2 Junior Member


    It is all synthetic. There is no such thing as "naturally produced" testosterone. It is synthesized from a molecule isolated from mexican yams or soybeans.
     
  7. #7
    drp90210

    drp90210 Junior Member

    Cynical Simian (love the handle!) -- yes, I realize the synthetic vs bio-identical thing was probably not causing my symptoms, but wanted to throw it out as a possibility. Suzanne Summers -- benig the hormone expert she is :) -- makes a big deal out of bio-identical in her new hormone book. I have followed 1CC's advice but have still felt crappy since converting from androgel to a cream. I know creams seems to work for most others. I'm still playing detective and when I figure it out (or get better) I'll report any interesting discoveries.
     
  8. #8
    Cynical Simian

    Cynical Simian Junior Member

    There's certainly no harm in being thorough, especially given that, as you noted, it's odd that you're feeling poor even with normal test results. A couple questions about those labs:

    You said you had "estrogen" tested - was it estradiol (sensitive assay)? Sometimes docs who don't often order estrogen tests for male patients will mark the regular test, which is pretty much useless for men. If that happened, get it rechecked with the proper test.

    Also, when did you have the test done (relative to application) and was there any chance that some cream was applied to the draw site (if I remember correctly, you're applying it to your arm)? In my thread about how long to wait to test after applying a cream, Phil recommended testing a couple times (say, once in the morning and again in the afternoon) to get a more complete picture of what's happening.
     
  9. #9
    drp90210

    drp90210 Junior Member

    Thanks Cynical Simian. The test was for E2 (estradiol) and came back at a 33 on a norm scale of 21-76. I was surprised because my symptoms seemed to mimick those of estogen imbalance. The blood draw was from the arm not used for cream application. I seemed to feel much better on hcg (low dose) w androgel, as opposed to HCG (low dose) w/ cream, but maybe my body is now adjusting to the new modality, or perhaps I simply got used to the super high levels of DHT caused by the Androgel and am just crashing from the high (although that seems unlikely). In any event, its a bit of a mystery now, but with further fiddling and testing I'm sure I'll get to the right treament.
     
  10. #10
    FYI777

    FYI777 Junior Member

    Exactly,seems like a refresher in organic chemistry is needed.This is commonly taken advantage of in marketing schemes.

    Bio-identical means exactly that,the same as produced in the body,of which I believe the scientist responsibe earned a nobel prize.He had to go thru a ton of bull testicles to finally find the testosterone as we now know.It wasn,t as easy to find as thyroid as thyroid is present in detectable quantities in the thyroid gland whereas testosterone is not.

    Natural Vitamin C vs.synthetic Vitamin C.If atomic diagram is equal or same than both are equal,no difference.

    Molecular diagram of methyltest does not equal test tho there is a resmblance with the addition of a 17 alkl group at the right hand of the molecule.This addition throws a monkey wrench in the body whereby the liver can't handle it and walla` jaundice.........
     
  11. #11
    marianco

    marianco Doctor of Medicine

    Bio-identical testosterone means that the chemical structure of the testosterone is identical to the testosterone produced by the human body. Thus, a person cannot become allergic to it. And it functions identically to the testosterone produced by the human body. Bio-identical testosterone are often produced from progesterone derived from the wild-mexican yam, via chemical processes.

    Bio-identical testosterones are used in Androgel and generally other testosterone gels and creams. The term "USP Testosterone" insures that the testosterone is bioidentical.

    Testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate end up being bio-identical because the enanthate and cypionate esters are cleaved off by enzymes in the body once they are injected, resulting in pure active testosterone. The esters allow the testosterone to be slowly released to the body.

    Synthetic testosterones are not identical to the testosterone our body produces. They undergo different paths for metabolism and do not have the same activity (they may be more potent for example), nor the same safety as the testosterone our body produces.

    Examples of synthetic testosterones include methyltestosterone, anavar, Nandrolone, and other androgenic steroids.
     
  12. #12
    healthbug

    healthbug Junior Member

    I also just switched from androgel to a Rx bioidentical cream (compounded by a compounding pharmacy), and feel way worse. Not sure why androgel works better... but it seems to. Very unexpected, going to follow up with doc about it. Btw. I've heard that methyltestosterone has been banned in most of Europe, because it is known to cause liver damage, and that european doctors can't believe it is still on the market here. I would avoid it.
     
  13. #13
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    I switched from androgel to cream and my T levels dropped by about 10%.
    Both of them completely failed for me though.
    Switched to shots and feel great.
     
  14. #14
    hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Active Member

    10% is not a signicant drop which could have been from application errors and absorption.
    >25% drop it would then draw attention
     
  15. #15
    TheOldFart

    TheOldFart Junior Member

    I started on androgel 5 gm last year and then switched to 7.5 gm after 3 months. After 6 months, my total T was at 277. I then read that Testim absorbs about 30% better than Androgel and asked my doctor to switch me to Testim 10 gm. My TT after 4 months was 644 and after another 2 months 862. Because my E2 was high, I reduced the Testim to 7.5 gm and after 2 months at that dose, my TT was at 268, or the same as when I was on 7.5 gm of Androgel. My ED was back and libido, morning erections and dreams were gone. I'm now back to 10 gm of Testim and morning erections and dreams are back after just 4 days on the higher dose. It is strange that the small dose change made such a big difference in TT. Here is my recent post on this and the discussions:

    http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens...one-replacement-therapy-jungle-134274119.html

    Here is one study on Androgel vs Testim:

    Switch Testosterone Gels in Unresponsive Hypogonadal Men | July 2007 | Internal Medicine World Report

    Since I have never tried 10 gm of Androgel, I don't know if Testim really works better for me or not. I have also read a couple of posts on other men's health boards where some guy didn't absorb compounded cream or gel very well, but I have never tried it.
     
  16. #16
    Britman

    Britman Member

    Q "Bio-identical versus synthetic testosterone

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I just read that Andrgogel uses "bio-identical" testosterone. I think that means that it was naturally derived from yams, as opposed to manufactured synthetically, but I'm not sure. In any event, I was wondering if anyone knew whether bio-identical testosterone was easier on the body or provided any other benefits over synthetic testosterone. I just switched from androgel (which uses bio-identical testosterone) to a cream (which uses testosterone of an unknown type) and I feel noticeably lousier and sometimes flushed. My estrogen and test levels just came back and are fine (to my surprise), so perhaps my symptoms have nothing to do with TRT"

    In answering the original question from some time ago - ALL TRT MEDS (whether it be gels/injections or otherwise) ARE SYNTHETIC i.e. they are man-made (produced from yams for example)

    Bio-identical means that the testosterone is the exact same in chemical structure to that produced by the body but it is still produced synthetically!

    This is a marketing ploy by the companies producing gels/creams because the testosterone produced in injections is not the exact same structure as that produced by the body so they cnnot market injectable T as "bio-identical". The difference with injectables is that the testosterone is bonded with an ester group - purposely done to act as a slower release in the body i.e. the ester group is cleaved from the testosterone molecule in the bloodstream.

    Hence why gels/creams need to be applied daily as opposed to weekly/monthly injections but point is they are still produced synthetically.
     
  17. #17
    lovevixen

    lovevixen Junior Member

    Test is test all that is different is the ester on the end to keep it active in the body for a while. I do not think test in creams or gels have ester's. I have tried the creams and they are ok but nothing beats sticking a needle in your arm or but once a week and injecting the test. It never fails to work it always works and asorption is never an issue. I do not see whya nyone would want to to mess with creams and gels when they could take a shot once a week and be done wit it!
     
  18. #18
    jags1984

    jags1984 Junior Member

    Ill answer that late. Injections give far more side effects. They did for me. Horrible sleep apnea, anxiety, and crazy frequent urination. androgel gives me none on those while raising my DHT higher giving me all the benefits of Test while not having to take large doses of Injections. The DHT in androgel makes me feel great.
     

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