Can Androgel account for increases in muscle mass?

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by m_ob, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. #1
    m_ob

    m_ob Member

    Because it's an androgen, I'm sure any form of testosterone in the bloodstream is anabolic, but I've heard that androgel results in little increase to overall mass if any at all. I can't see how this could be true, especially if it's properly applied and absorbed. Here's something I found from a HRT doctor


    "Testosterone supplementation (by any route) can be associated with increased muscle mass, as well as improved libido, mood, and other effects. Switching from testosterone injections to AndroGel in and of itself should not cause weight gain. Its essentially the same medication, just in a more convenient and less painful formulation than injections"
    Dr. Robert J. Franscino​
     

    Attached Files:

  2. #2
    mrmorris

    mrmorris Active Member

    That's interesting to hear. I was on androgel a few years ago and hated it. After 2 months of applying that crap my T levels only increased 76. That sucks! I personally prefer the injections, there painless to me, any it just once a week. I have also notices a muscle mass gain and I don't even work out.

    So bottom line injections for work best, but everyone is different!

    Thanks again for sharing, morris:)



     
  3. #3
    m_ob

    m_ob Member

    I'm hoping my young skin allows for increased absorbtion. Wishful thinking, I know, but we'll base it off how I feel.
     
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  4. #4
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    Increased relative to what?

    Increase can definitely be had using androgel under some circumstances compared to some other circumstances.

    For example, someone who isn't weight training and has severely depressed testosterone is of course going to have good muscle mass increases on using Androgel and weight training. That would be at one extreme.

    At the other extreme, someone who has good testosterone in the first place and uses Androgel and either doesn't train either before or after, or is at a stable point in his training and keeps things the same, is unlikely to notice much if anything.
     
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  5. #5
    KBD

    KBD Well-Known Member

    Maybe if your jump in a bathtub of it lol.
     
  6. #6
    m_ob

    m_ob Member

    First off, thank you Mr. Roberts for giving your input. I'm talking about in the situation of an already deficient male who has lost tone and mass due to hypogonadism. From what you're saying, in this case I would benefit from the increase to optimal T levels?
     
  7. #7
    Jeton

    Jeton Active Member

    yes, androgel can definitely help u increase lean body mass from ur present state, when combined with smart resistance training. i put on mass when i went on androgel/testim in 2004...and again in 2006, just not as much as i have since by switching to shots in late 2006. last month my doc added testim to my shots, so now i'm really humming along.
     
  8. #8
    njnjr23

    njnjr23 Junior Member

    I don't know how much benefit she was getting with it vs other things, but I know a 'natural' bodybuilder friend of mine would apply androgel every morning at the gym prior to working out.
     
  9. #9
    Millard Baker

    Millard Baker Member

    Androgel more convenient than injections?
     
  10. #10
    Jeton

    Jeton Active Member

    :D i used to think that way years ago.\

    i must say tho, my doc is right...combining injections and gels is sort of the best of both worlds. u get the continuous exposure of the injections and some semblance of natural hormonal rhythm with the gels. Testim is every bit the inconvenient bitch i remember, but now i only leave it on 60-120 minutes, and i scrub it off with heavy soap on a bath-brush so i dont carry that cheap-cologne smell everywhere. if it didn't absorb faster than Androgel i'd be using the latter instead, no smell n less sticky under ur clothes...

    i had suggested 100mg cypionate injections for mob twice weekly, along with 1-2 pumps of androgel, but he went the route of 4 pumps daily along with (what i *think*, with my limited knowledge) is a pretty big dose of hcg. based on what Dr RIck Loftus wrote on another forum, i'd worry if hi-doses of hcg longterm might not result in the same symptoms as longterm cypionate injections, eg infertility, even-more-suppressed endogenous T production, possible dopamine antagonism, but with less T-boosting effect.
     
  11. #11
    m_ob

    m_ob Member

    and I understand the effectiveness of shots, but it's not like he said I could never switch over. I have a follow up in 2 months so however well the androgel does will determine what we do. As far as my HCG dosing goes, I was a little confused as well until I sat down and looked at it The directions my doctor gave me are exactly this:
    How to mix HCG: 10,000 unit vial
    Use insulin needles and transfer the bacteriostic water to the vial with the powder in it 3cc's at a time. Keep the powder vial upright, or you will blow HCG out of i when you pull the needle out be sure to draw air out after you push water in to release pressure each time. Gently swirl to mix, HCG is fragile. Keep in the refrigerator, simple as that.

    You will then have 10,000 IUS of HCG in 10ccs. Therefore, each 1cc contains 1,000IU of HCG. When using an insulin syringe, each unit on the scale of the syringe equals 10IU of HCG. 250IU of HCG is then 25 units on the side of the insulin syringe.
     
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  12. #12
    Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine


    Now I understand the confusion. An Insulin syringe is marked for Insulin, which comes in 100 IU per ml. The 10 IU mark is actually 0.1 CC. You are using 100 IU, NOT 10 IU, as you noted in the other post]. You now have it right.
     
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  13. #13
    Jeton

    Jeton Active Member

    ok, now the whole scenario makes more sense...in this thread he seemed under-dosed on hcg, n in the other thread he seemed gigantically dosed.

    hope u feel better, m_ob. if ur really concerned with maximizing the androgel effectiveness for LBM, try focusing ur workouts, pre-workout shakes, after workout shakes n after-workout meals in the time period where ur T-spike will be highest from the androgel...u may wants to focus on dumbbells if u get too sweaty n the gel is wiping off. androgel is slower to absorb than testim n i recall needing to leave it on at least 4-5 hours to get good absorption.
     
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  14. #14
    m_ob

    m_ob Member

    Thanks bro. I'll keep it to 3x8 compound lifts at night, or after it's been absorbed, so around three-six hours.
     
  15. #15
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    Yes, I would definitely expect so.

    Where androgel is criticized for "not working" or being "useless," these criticisms are fair where the desire is to achieve steroid-cycle like results with an individual who has good natural testosterone.

    But such conclusions are completely off-base with respect to an individual who has low testosterone and is normalizing it with the Androgel, and is expecting to obtain only the outcomes that he would expect with normal testosterone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010
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  16. #16
    m_ob

    m_ob Member

    I'm not getting my hopes up. I'd just like to be where I was at strength and mass wise two years ago.
     
  17. #17
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    That is definitely doable.

    Getting your free testosterone tested -- this is the only reliably meaningful number: total testosterone is not! -- isn't expensive at all. It's very much worth checking your results and making sure you are achieving at least the midpoint of the normal range.
     
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  18. #18
    Deacon

    Deacon Member

    exactly - this is where Androgel gets a bad rap - dudes expecting it to work like 1000 mgs of test e per week
     
  19. #19
    m_ob

    m_ob Member

    So high expectations rather than sucky product.
     
  20. #20
    mrmorris

    mrmorris Active Member

    Thanks, Bill that was a very good and helpful response. It really makes alot of sense!

    For example, I have always had low T levels, low to mid 200's. I am 26, yes I need to loose weight at 270lbs and 6'2.5" tall. But I have a VERY large build and always have, and i am big boned you could say? Most people guess i am about 210lbs, and I have lost weight about 20lbs since restarting TRT on 6-29-10. Is that common to loose weight?
    Anyways, I fit the category of i am not weight training and have noticed some increased muscle mass. I really need to get down to the gym and start training, slowly. Hell I work for the US Gov, Air Force, and on base they have a new huge gym that is free to use anytime I want. What the hell is my problem????[:eek:)]

    Thanks Again for that reply! Morris:)



     

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