Does tribulus actually increase Testosterone levels?

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by chemman, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. #1
    chemman

    chemman Member

    I took tribestan brand. I felt like superman for a few weeks! Spontaneous erections...dreaming up fight scenarios...improved athletic endurance... better cognitive performance... more motivation in school....etc.

    Then I started getting really depressed and anxious.

    So....

    Does tribulus actually raise T or does it work on a different mechanism?

    Or...

    Is tribestan just spiked with some kind of steroid?

    I know that my post-use testosterone levels were about half of what they were before I started using tribestan. No data while taking the product.
     
  2. #2
    swifto

    swifto Junior Member

    No no no no and no.
     
  3. #3
    chemman

    chemman Member

    That's what I've heard. I am willing to bet it actually lowers levels in some.
     
  4. #4
    Kwirion

    Kwirion Member

    Most of TT supps are just a chinese junk powder.

    Some says that TT works through DHEA and increasing of dopamine (MAOI)
    And works only if you DHEA / testosterone level is quite low.
    You can increase you level with TT for short time, but higher levels (converted to e2 and DHT) signals pituitary (HPTA), that you have enough and body lower the production.

    TT must by cycled and for best results used with some mild anti-aromatase or SERM drug / supplement.
    Lowering the level of cortisol will be good idea too

    But up to date noting is know for sure!

     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
  5. #5
    Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine


    I investigated Tribulus Terrestis (TT) a decade ago. [Street C, Antonio J, Scally MC. The Effects of Tribulus Terrestis on Endocrine Status in Recreational BodyBuilders - A Preliminary Report. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 2000 Suppl;32(5).]

    My interest came about by the hypogonadism that I was seeing in BB using this supplement. This effect was in a starked contrast to what was advertised. The results of my small study showed no effect on serum T. These same results were later shown in published studies (below). In summary, I would avoid this product.


    Neychev VK, Mitev VI. The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men. J Ethnopharmacol 2005;101(1-3):319-23.

    OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.


    Rogerson S, Riches CJ, Jennings C, Weatherby RP, Meir RA, Marshall-Gradisnik SM. The effect of five weeks of Tribulus terrestris supplementation on muscle strength and body composition during preseason training in elite rugby league players. J Strength Cond Res 2007;21(2):348-53.

    Tribulus terrestris is an herbal nutritional supplement that is promoted to produce large gains in strength and lean muscle mass in 5-28 days (15, 18). Although some manufacturers claim T. terrestris will not lead to a positive drug test, others have suggested that T. terrestris may increase the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio, which may place athletes at risk of a positive drug test. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of T. terrestris on strength, fat free mass, and the urinary T/E ratio during 5 weeks of preseason training in elite rugby league players. Twenty-two Australian elite male rugby league players (mean +/- SD; age = 19.8 +/- 2.9 years; weight = 88.0 +/- 9.5 kg) were match-paired and randomly assigned in a double-blind manner to either a T. terrestris (n = 11) or placebo (n = 11) group. All subjects performed structured heavy resistance training as part of the club's preseason preparations. A T. terrestris extract (450 mg.d(-1)) or placebo capsules were consumed once daily for 5 weeks. Muscular strength, body composition, and the urinary T/E ratio were monitored prior to and after supplementation. After 5 weeks of training, strength and fat free mass increased significantly without any between-group differences. No between-group differences were noted in the urinary T/E ratio. It was concluded that T. terrestris did not produce the large gains in strength or lean muscle mass that many manufacturers claim can be experienced within 5-28 days. Furthermore, T. terrestris did not alter the urinary T/E ratio and would not place an athlete at risk of testing positive based on the World Anti-Doping Agency's urinary T/E ratio limit of 4:1.


    Saudan C, Baume N, Emery C, Strahm E, Saugy M. Short term impact of Tribulus terrestris intake on doping control analysis of endogenous steroids. Forensic Sci Int 2008;178(1):e7-10.

    Tribulus terrestris is a nutritional supplement highly debated regarding its physiological and actual effects on the organism. The main claimed effect is an increase of testosterone anabolic and androgenic action through the activation of endogenous testosterone production. Even if this biological pathway is not entirely proven, T. terrestris is regularly used by athletes. Recently, the analysis of two female urine samples by GC/C/IRMS (gas chromatography/combustion/isotope-ratio-mass-spectrometry) conclusively revealed the administration of exogenous testosterone or its precursors, even if the testosterone glucuronide/epitestosterone glucuronide (T/E) ratio and steroid marker concentrations were below the cut-off values defined by World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). To argue against this adverse analytical finding, the athletes recognized having used T. terrestris in their diet. In order to test this hypothesis, two female volunteers ingested 500 mg of T. terrestris, three times a day and for two consecutive days. All spot urines were collected during 48 h after the first intake. The (13)C/(12)C ratio of ketosteroids was determined by GC/C/IRMS, the T/E ratio and DHEA concentrations were measured by GC/MS and LH concentrations by radioimmunoassay. None of these parameters revealed a significant variation or increased above the WADA cut-off limits. Hence, the short-term treatment with T. terrestris showed no impact on the endogenous testosterone metabolism of the two subjects.
     
  6. #6
    Kwirion

    Kwirion Member

    I'm not fan of TT, but all this studies was done in good trained subjects (i.e. elite players)

    What with men with hypo / ED problems?

    From me experience TT gave me some (small) relief from low testo problems (less anxiety, more energy), better libido. No gains on gym.
     
  7. #7
    chemman

    chemman Member

    Scally: can you disclose your source of TT?

    I am willing to bet that some brands are "spiked" with something suppressive.

    My TT went from 590 (and this was a 1:00pm draw!) to 345 (8am draw) after using tribestan TT. I am willing to bet that the TT shut me down.

    And then of course I thought I should keep taking more to fix the problem at which point I bagan having significant mood disturbances.

    And then I saw the Estradiol=35 and decided to take arimidex.


    Needless to say, I am just now beginning to regrow my chest hair about a year later.
     
  8. #8
    flaccido

    flaccido Junior Member

    I´ve found a lot of people on different netforums saying they could feel some boost of the libido.
    I wan´t to try TT myself, just a little worried messing with my hormone system.
     
  9. #9
    hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Active Member

    all anecodotal ....No science behind it what so ever. Why it works I have no clue but i know it does give me a jolt when I took it back in the day
     
  10. #10
    loopy107

    loopy107 Junior Member

    I used a product called Nitro T-3 5 years ago. It had tribulus and the effects were unbelievable. I couldn't believe how great I felt. My workouts were awesome, mentally felt sharper all day long and libido went through the roof. It was that product that made me believe that the way I was feeling my whole life was not right. I stopped after a month and looked for help from a doctor to look into my hormones. It was then where I discovered many of my hormone problem.

    Unfortunately there isn't a ton of science to back Tribulus up, but I know many people who had great results with it and some that did not.
     
  11. #11
    chemman

    chemman Member

    I don't think the "high" you get from tribulus is a normal feeling. I compare it feeling like superman. And the reason your labs might have come back low upon further investigation after using that product is that it could have suppressed your HPTA.

    I am convinced that some tribulus products suppress testosterone levels in some people. Furthermore, I am convinced that the brand of tribulus I used for several months was spiked with a suppressive compound or at least led to suppression of MY HPTA.

    I think it is no coincidence that Dr. Scally, probably one of the world's most knowledgeable doctors in regards to the HPTA, does not recommend the use of tribulus. I have seen him state specifically to people trying to recover their HPTA that tribulus should be avoided.

    I am sure that he has had people come to him needing treatment for hypogonadism after using tribulus.

    The science behind the product is very inconclusive, but I think a lot of it comes down to which brand and batch you are analyzing.
     
  12. #12
    g3twell

    g3twell Junior Member

    I know this thread is pretty old, but thought I would post a response anyway.

    I thought I would give TT a try. I was taking if for about a week or 2, using NOW brand which I assume is pretty reputable, and felt some suppression of libido, and
    then pretty bad anxiety. Now I have problems with anxiety anyway, but up until this week have been very well controlled for almost 2 years.

    Without any data, I am wondering if the TT suppressed some T production in my causing the anxiety? I stopped it as soon as the anxiety cropped up, and 2 days after, my libido is back stronger than before. I know TT is supposed to work on the lutenizing hormone which is part of the Test. signalling cycle, I just may be a paradoxical responder.

    I know DIM had the opposite effect on me, it shut down my libido to nothing at all, that was horrible.

    WIth low T I have trouble with energy and putting on muscle mass, anxiety, depression, mental focus, the whole lot. In my early 40's I want to avoid going on T replacement as long as possible, but don't want to be miserable at the same time.

    Anyone else find a good herbal combo that works for them, when TT made them worse? Maca?
     
  13. #13
    lift heavy

    lift heavy Junior Member

    i found some cheap BULGARIAN TRIBULUS at gnc $8 90caps for me only feeling i notice is i had a tender nipple and now a month later no more tenderness for me thats about it. ive read on other fourms that tribulus was good for after pct to help spike the sex up abit fast. as far as gym strength dont feel nothing.
     
  14. #14
    LW64

    LW64 Well-Known Member

    Sounds to me like its actually estrogenic.

    I tried maca for a while and it did nothing. Oh, well, not exactly. One night about two weeks into it, I woke up at 3 am with a racing heart and cold sweats.

    Why dont we make this easy by having just have ONE thread that discusses ONLY the supplements that are clinically proven via randomized clinical trial to raise T.

    It will be one blank post and enuf said.
     
  15. #15
    BBC3

    BBC3 Well-Known Member

    NO - But DAA does. See above...:D

    SPiked ? Probably / yes. if it worked. Too many studies with no action...

     
  16. #16
    cazper

    cazper Active Member

    Wow those bastards! Sucks, I already ordered some Met-Rx 750 trib. Oh well, guess it'll be the last one I order. Great input here guys.:-bd
     
  17. #17
    cazper

    cazper Active Member

    Haha I'm begining to think you're probably right.
    This is why I love this forum.
     

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