First Cycle Log w/ OCD (Over-detailed)

Barry Strong

Junior Member
First off, thanks to all for reading, reviewing, and/or responding to my first (inject) cycle log. My goal is to maximize lean muscle gaining/preserving potential while minimizing fat, and taking full advantage of virgin 1st cycle gains to do this.

In respect for people's time, I will BLUE BOLD the important parts.

My first cycle info below is accumulative of 5 years of reading and studying across many boards and patience to make sure things run as smooth as possible.

********** DISCLAIMER: I actually have a subtype form of OCD(obsessive compulsive disorder) that unfortunately comes along with the symptoms of compulsive corrections. **************

OVERTHINKING has taken place for added security measures so that I feel at ease and so the "create thread" button can finally be clicked. Enjoy the ride with me!



Stats:


Age: 25
Height: 6ft. 6in.
Weight: 265 (120 kg)
BF %: 16%
Body Type: Mesomorph (w/ endomorph tendencies)
BLOOD WORK COMING SOON!!


My Weightlifting Experience:
I started league football, basketball, and wrestling at a very young age and was put under a lot of pressure from coaches/friends to kick start my weightlifting career at age 12. With all focus on football, at 15 I was a freshman All-American ranking #89 in the nation (#12 out of offensive lineman). My junior year, I committed to a D1 program in the Big East. I left for college in the middle of my HS senior year and started at Left Tackle in 11 of 14 games, as a freshman. At the time, I was blessed to thoroughly work with one of greatest weight training coach I’ve met, who currently works with the Chicago bears’ training staff. Overall, I have been weightlifting for 13 years, but legitimately for 8.


My Cycle Experience:
I ran Epistane a couple years after I was done with football. Other “cycles” include. Ostarine, T3 (cytomel), Caradine (solo/stack) ipamorelin with PCT always being Nolvadex/Clomid. I have ran the compounds multiple times and know how they affect my body and to properly dose and run them. BUT HAVE NEVER RAN AN INJECTABLE CYCLE.

1st Epi @30/40/40/50/60 pct:nolva/clomid
2nd Epi@50-70 6wks Osta@33mg T3@upto75mcg 8wks
3rd Card@25mg 4wks Ipamorelin 12wks


My First Cycle:
Test Enthanate 500mg/wk – Pinning E3D 250mg/ml
(Note: All test-e is from a UGlab. I bought a vial ahead to pay for analysis before buying)


25g 1.5’ needle w/ 3ml Syringe (For Pinning)
20g 1’ needle w/ 3ml Syringe (For Drawing)
(Note: All needles/syringes are Becton Dickinson)


Epistane 40/50/50/60/60 W1-W5
(Note: Epistane is RPN Havoc 2014 sealed original bottles)

Ostarine (MK-2866) 33mg/ed
Carnadine (GW-50156) 20mg/ed



Arimidex .25mg EoD
(Note: dosages can increase up to 1mg/ED depending on estrogenic sides)


My Cycle Additional Info:


Avoiding PIP
- When first drawing, leave small air space will be between the oil and Syringe top
- The filled syringe will be left standing up for 30-45 mins to settle and release small air bubbles
- After settling Syringe (w/ drawing needle) will be heated in a heating pad for 5 mins
- Needle will change to 25g 1.5’ right before pinning
- Pining will be slow
- After pinning aHOT shower will be taken
- 15 Full body squats will be performed after shower (to massage oil).

Avoiding Test Flu
- Vitamin C Dosage will double for the first week and a half.
- Zinc dosage will be doubled for first cycle week.
(Note: See regular dosages in ‘Supplements’ section)
- Colloidal Silver dosed AM/PM (will be taken with Red wine to break through fatty cell walls)


Post Cycle Therapy:
Nolvadex 50/40/30/20
Clomid 150/100/50/50

HCG 500iu/ed (10 days ONLY right after pin leading into pct)
(Note: Nolva/Clomid will be used in conjunction)

PCT Extras:
Creatine Monohydrate 10g/ed
DAA Powerchews
HMB
DIM


Additional Cycle Add-ons:
T3 (Cytomel) 50/50/50/75/75/75/50/20 W4-W10
Finastride .25mg x2/ed AM/PM
(Note: Finastride is Proscalpin ‘Generic’)


Cycle Additional Items:
BD 25g 1.5in Needles 100ct (1)
BD Syringe 3ml w/ 23g 1in Needles 100ct (1)
BD 20g 1" Needles 100ct (1)
Alcohol wipes (1)
Sanitary Gloves


Workout Regimen:
Monday- Chest / Triceps / Shoulders
BB Flat Press x4
BB Incline Press x3
DB Decline Flyes x2
DB Shoulder Press x3
Pec Dec Flyes x3
DB Lateral Raise x3
Low Cable Crossover x3
Small BB Upright Row x3
Reverse Pec Dec Flyes x4
Parallel Dips x3 (10sec lowers walk-ups)
Triceps Extension x2 (Down) x2 (OverHead)


Tuesday- Back / Biceps
Lateral Pulldowns x4
Closegrip V-Bar Lat Pulldowns x3
One Arm DB Row x3
Incline Lying DB Row x3
Close Grip Cable Row x4
DB Pullovers x3
Incline Curl x2 (Regular) x2 (Hammerhead)


Wednesday- Leg / Abs / Calves
Leg Press x4
Full Squat x3
Lunges x2
DB Deadlift x4
Hamstring curls x3
Seated DB calf raises x2
Calf leg Press x3
Russian Twist x3
Decline Sit-ups x3
Hanging Leg Raisesx3
DB side bends x3
Plank


Thursday- OFF / Hiit
Mountain climbers x 10 mins


Friday- Chest / Triceps / Shoulders

DB Flat Press x4
DB Incline Press x3
DB Decline Flyes x2
Pec Dec Flyes x4
Machine Shoulder Press x3
Lateral Raise x3
Reverse Pec Dec x3
Triceps Extension x2 (down) x2 (overhead)3
Push Press Machine x3 (failure)


Saturday - Back / Biceps

Close Grip Vbar Lat Pulldowns x3
Behind Head Lat Pulldowns x3
Close Grip Underhand Lat Pulls x3
Machine Row Upper x3
Machine Row Lower x3
Concentration Curls x3
Bicep Machine x3


Sunday- Abs / Calves / Hiit

Russian Twist x3
Butterfly kicks floor x3
Decline Sit-ups x3
AB Crunch Machine x3
Hanging Leg Raises x3
Seated Calf Raises w/ DB & plank under toe x3
Calf raises w/ plank under toe x3
Stationary Bike Hiit x30 secs 1 minute Off
(Note: Some sets include warm-ups)


Extreme Stretching
W1 After Every Exercise
W2 Once in workout on muscle most pumped
W3 After Every full set
W4 Rest the connective tissues.
(Note: W1-W4 will be repeated throughout the cycle and pct)


Morning Kickstart Routine
5 min warm up
⁃ 3 min crump dancing
⁃ 2 min jump rope


5 min Abs Work
⁃ Leg bent up.. Arms out crunches 30
⁃ Leg Up Side Oblique Crunches 30
⁃ Bent legs kick out..kick up arms flat side 30
⁃ Bent leg side pull ins 30
⁃ Double straight leg raises 30


10min Stretches
- Calf Stretch 20 breaths /5secs
- Quadriceps Stretch 20/5
- Shoulder Stretch 20/5
- Triceps Stretch 20/5
- Runner's Stretch 20/5
- Butterfly Stretch 20/5
- Standing Side Stretch 15/5


10min Foam Roller (L/R = Left/Right)
⁃ Spine Rolls 45 secs
⁃ Shoulder Lat Rolls L/R 22 secs ea
⁃ Chest front felt Rolls L/R 22 secs ea
⁃ Upper Back Rolls 45 secs
⁃ Lower Back Rolls 45 secs
⁃ Glute Rolls 45secs
⁃ Quad Rolls 45secs
⁃ Hamstring Rolls 45secs
⁃ Abductor Rolls L/R 22 secs ea
⁃ Side IT band Rolls L/R 22 secs ea
⁃ Calf and Ankle Rolls 45 secs
- Foot Rolls L/R (Ball) 22 sec ea


(Note: Morning routine is added before pinning to get blood flowing to muscles while preparing muscle for day’s activities. Timer will be used for time efficiency)
(Note: Workout exercises will change every 4 weeks to shock and stimulate muscle fibers. Hypertrophy exercises will still be included)



Supplements:
Before reading below, please note that 95% of the supplements listed that I will be taking will be of no cost.. 100% FREE (courtesy of my college friends and team fans). I am 100% aware that nutrition and macro nutrients should be derived from foods as much as possible. I am not promoting to follow this supplements regimen specifically. However, with studying and reveiwingmutiple lab test results of how each supplement solo and stacked, I feel this supplement stack will even aid me further in my goals. Moreso, I have used every supplement solo/stack listed below (except Nizoral & Metamucil) and have recorded reactions/dosages that works for my own body/bodytype. Extensive research has went into getting this part of my regimen right. I am willing to provide case studies/ scholastic test results to explain the reasons I am taking each, the dosages and timing of each. With access to nearly any supplement you can think of at no cost please feel free to provide add-ins. With all that said I am still a well researched novice, so would love input and feedback from the experienced. Thanks!


Supplement List: (#) = How many I will receive each month during cycle and PCT
Muscle Supps:
Arginine 1000 AKG 120ct (1)
Arginine 1000 HCL 200ct (1)
Animal Pak 44ct (1)
Alpha Lipoic Acid 600mg 60ct (1)
Alpha Lipoic Acid 300mg 120ct (1)
Astaxanthin 5mg 60ct (1)
Amylopro Carbs 11 srvs (3)
BCAAs Unflav 60srvs (1)
BCAAs Citrulline 30srvs (2)
Bioperine 10mg 120ct (1)
Colloidal Silver 8oz (1)
Cordygen VO2 120ct (1)
Caffeine 200mg 60ct (1)
Celery Seed 600mg 100ct (1)
CoQ10 100mg 120ct (1)
Cal/Mag/D3 16oz 32srvs (1)
Carnitine 3000mg 31 srvs (2)
Fish Oil 1360mg 180ct (2)
Garlic/Parsley 500/100mg 250ct (1)
Green Tea 750mg 100ct (1)
Hawthorn Ext. 150mg 100ct (2)
Liv.52 DS 60ct (2)
Milk Thistle 250mg 200ct (1)
Max Multi 180ct (1)
N-Acetyl Cystine 600mg 120ct (1)
Probiotic RAW Men's 30ct (1)
Probiotic 10 300ct (1)
RN Resveratrol 500mg 60ct (1)
Resveratrol 500mg 60ct (1)
Taurine 1g 300ct (1)
Tyrosine 500 mg (4 pills)
Tumeric 1000mg 120ct (1)
VitaminC Crystals 5g 113srvs (1)
Zygest Enzymes 90ct (1)
ZMA 90ct (1)


Joint Supps:
JointSooth 270ct (1)
MSM 1500mg 120ct (1)
Arnica Muscle 3oz (1)
Tiger Balm ultra 1oz (1)
Cissus RX 1600mg 150ct (1)
Hyaluronic Acid 50g 60ct (1)
Sam-E 400mg 30ct (2)


Hair Supps:
Regenepure DR 8oz (1
Regenepure NT 8oz (1)
Rosemary Essential Oil (1)
Argan Hair Conditioner (1)
Argan restorative hair treatment(1)
Emu Oil (1)
Hair Formula 90 (1)
Black Jamaican Castor Oil (1)
Proscalpin Finasteride 50pills (2)


Supplement Schedule: (Window = Empty Stomach / Meal # = With Food)
(Note: Whey Protein shake sources will change)


Window 6am
Epistane 10mg (1 pill)
Fish Oil 4g (3 pills)
Resveratrol 500mg (1 pill)
Turmeric 1000mg (1 pill)
ON Whey Protein (1 scp)
Tyrosine 500g (1 pill) *Not during W4-W10*


Wake UP 8:00am
Arginine 5g (2akg 3hcl)
BCCA Unflavored 5g (1 scp)
Vitamin C Crystals 5g (1scp)
Caffeine 200mg (1 pill)
Probiotics 34 strains (1 pill)
NAC 1200mg (2 pills)
Cissus 1600mg (2pill)
Glucosamine/Chondroitin/Msm (2pills)
MSM (2 pills)
SAM-E 400mg (1 pill)
Taurine 3g (3 pills)


Meal 1 8:45am
Alpha Lipoic Acid 600mg (1 pill)
Animal Pak Multi (1 pack)
Astaxanthin 5mg (1 pill)
Fish Oil 2.7g (2 pills)
Garlic/Parsley 1000mg (2 pills)
Hyaluronic Acid 50mg (1 pill)
HealthyHair Formula (1pill)
Multi-Enzyme (1 pill)
L-Carnitine Free Form 3g (1 tbsp)
Hawthorne Berry 300mg (1 pill)
Celery Seed 600mg (1 pill)
Milk thistle 250mg (1 pill)
Colloidal Silver (1 Tblspn)


Window 10:00am
Green Tea 750mg (1 pill)
Tyrosine 500mg (1pill)


Meal 2 12:00pm
Fish Oil 2.7g (2 pills)
Bioperine 10mg (1 pill)
Epistane 10mg (1 pill)
Syntha 6 (1 scp)
COQ10 100mg (1 pill)


Meal 3 3:00pm
Alpha Lipoic Acid 600mg (1 pill)
Hawthorne Berry 300mg (2 pills)
Celery Seed 600mg (1 pill)
Milk Thistle 250mg (1 pill)
Probiotic 10 (1 pill)
Cal/Mag/D3 (1 Tbsp.)
HealthyHair Form (1 pill)


Window 5:00pm
Cissus 1600g (2 pills)
Glucosamine/Chondroitin/Msm (3pills)
MSM 1500mg (2pills)
Tyrosine 500mg (1 pill)


Meal 4 6:30pm
Fish Oil 2.7 g (2 pills)
Epistane 10mg (1 pill)
Turmeric 1000mg (1 pill)
Garlic/Parsley 1000mg (2 pills)


Window 7:45
Arginine 5g (2hcl 3akg)


PreWorkout 8:30pm
ALA 300mg (1 pill)
BCCA Citrulline Malate 5g (1 scp)
VitaminC crystals 5g (1 scp)
Green Tea 750mg (1 pill)
Taurine 4g (4 pills)


Window 9:00pm
L-Carnitine Free Form 3g (1 tbsp)


Workout 9:30pm
Water Only


PostWO 11:00pm
ON Hydrowhey (1 scp)
WaxieMaize/ MaltodextrinCarbs (1 scp)
MAX Multivitamin (1 pill)
Taurine 3g (3 pills)
Colloidal Silver (1 tbsp)


Meal 6 11:30pm
ALA 300mg (1 pill)
Astaxanthin 5mg (1 pill)
Fish Oil 2.7g (2 pills)
Epistane 10mg (1 pill)
MultiEnzyme (1 pill)
COQ10 100mg (1 pill)
Garlic/Pars 1000mg (2 pill)
Hawthorne Berry 300mg (2 pill)
Hair Form (1 pill)
Celery Seed 600mg (1 pill)
Milk Thistle 250mg (1 pill)
Bioperine 10mg (1 pill)


Window 12:30am
Cissus 1600mg (2 pills)
Probiotic 10 (1 pill)
ZMA (3 pills)
Hyaluronic Acid 50mg (1 pill)
MSM (2pills)
SAM-e 400mg (1 pill)
Arginine 5g (5hcl)
Tyrosine 500mg (1 pill)


Bedtime 1:30am
ALA 300mg (1 pill)
BCCA Citrulline Malate 5g (1 scp)
VitaminC crystals 5g (1 scp)
Metamucil
ALA 300mg (1 pill)
NAC 1200mg (2 pills)
Syntha6/Casein (1scp ea)
Turmeric 1000mg (1 pill)
Resveratrol 500mg (1 pill)
Arnica Gel (On joints/ed)
Tiger Balm (On worked muscle group)


Food:
This will be as close to what I will be eating throughout the cycle. Some items/dosages are subject to change. The 3 Cheat Meals are not included the few that will occur, but will be listed during actual cycle log. Meat variety will change from chicken breast to moose (seriously). Different carb variations included as well. MACRONUTRIENTS will remain the same.


Grocery List Weekly
Asparagus Spears (60)
Bananas (7)
Eggs (4 dozen)
Blueberries (4 cups 400grams 14oz)
Oats (1 container every 2 weeks)
Green Onion (14)
Portobello Mushrooms (7 cups 602grams)
TripleZero Yogurt (1 quart)
Ezekiel Bread (1 loaf)
Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast (105oz 3000grams)
Cottage Cheese LowFat LowSalt (7cups)
Ground Beef 95/5
Spinach (1 carton)
Spaghetti Squash (1)
Light Tuna Bumblebee (3 packs)
Salmon (12oz 340grams .75lbs)
Morton salt substitute
Sodium Free Ketchup/BBQ (1)
Peanut butter natural (14 tbsp)
Protein Chips (7 bags 3weeks)
PurePro Bars (14 bars 2 boxes)
Brown Rice (2 cups 390 grams raw)
Pineapple (1)


Feeding Schedule: (Sample. This will not be every day, but close to it)


Window 6am
ON 100% Whey


Meal 1 8:45am
Eggs x 1 Whites x 5
⁃ Mushrooms 1 Cup
⁃ Green Onions 2 stalks
Oats 1 cup
⁃ TripZero Yogurt 2tbsp
⁃ Blueberry 1/2 cup
⁃ Syntha6 1 scoop
⁃ Fat Free Milk


Window 10am
Water


Meal 2 12:00pm
Syntha6 1 scoop


Meal 3 3:00pm
Chicken Breast 4oz
Asparagus 8 - 10 Spears


Window 5pm


Meal 4 6:30pm
Protein Chips 1 bag
PurePro Bar 1 bar


PreWO 8:30pm
Ezekiel Bread 2 slices
• Peanutbutter 1 tbsp
• Jam low sugar 1 tbsp
PurePro Bar 1 bar


PostWO 11:00pm
HydroWhey 1 scoop
ON 100% Whey 1 scoop
Amylopro Carbs 1 scoop


Meal 5 11:45pm
Chicken Breast 8oz
Light Tuna or Wild Salmon 1 pack/ 3oz
Brown Rice or Yam 1 cup/ 1 half
Pineapples 3oz


Window 12:00am


Bedtime 1:30am
Syntha6 1 scoop
Casein 1 scoop
Cottage Cheese 1 cup
Protein Nuts 1 oz


HairGENERATE Routine:
Finestride .5mg x2 am/pm ED
Regenepure DR & NT (Nizoral 2%)
⁃ Mon/Wed/Fri
Hair Serum
⁃ Tue/Thu/Sun
⁃ 15 drops rosemary oil
⁃ 50ml Black Castor oil
⁃ Argan Oil Hair Serum
⁃ Emu Oil
Hair Formula 3/day
Argan Oil Restorative Conditioner ED pm
Silk Du-rag


Water Intake:
1.5-2+ gallons per day



Macronutrients

Calories: 3700/ed 4200/leg day
Protein: 430g (45-50%)
Carbs: 350g (35-40%)
Fats: 65g (15-20%)


Daily Intakes:


Sugar: 100g
Sodium 3000-3500mg
Fiber: 60-75 g


Again thanks for reviewing my cycle. This is my first time with injectable test-e I am open to as many suggestions and corrective criticism (provided reason and facts) that is offered. Huge shoutout to my close friends and team fans for the support with giving me free access to the many supplements and items in my first cycle.

Cycle Progress Log Layout:
General Observations:
Weight:
Workout:
Strength:
Key Lifts:
Drugs Taken:

****Cycle log will be detailed every day. But posting update will be Every Other Day***

  • Body Comp Pics will be posted once a week
  • Measurements every 2 weeks
  • Bloodwork reading every 4 weeks
 

Barry Strong

Junior Member
Day 1

General Observations:
No feeling. A little more alert maybe because of the early morning epistane and GH pulse from Ipa. Otherwise no changes. Placebo energy level increase.

Weight: 265 lbs (morning weigh in)

Workout: Chest / Triceps / Shoulders

Strength: Nothing noticeable.

Key lifts:
BB Bench: 25x 90lbs, 20x 145, 15x 225lbs, 8x 230lbs
DB Shoulder press: 25x 35lbs, 25x 35lbs, 10x 40lbs

Drugs taken:
Epistane: 40mg (broken up 10 every 6 hours)
Cardarine: 20mg (preworkout)
Ostarine: 33mg (morning)
Ipamorelin: 500mcg ( 3x shots)

Diet:
8:45am

Eggs x 1 Whites x 5
⁃ Mushrooms 1 Cup
⁃ Green Onions 2 stalks
Oats 1 cup
⁃ TripZero Yogurt 2tbsp
⁃ Blueberry 1/2 cup
⁃ Syntha6 1 scoop
⁃ Fat Free Milk
12:00pm
Syntha6 1 scoop
Chicken Breast 4oz
Asaragus 8 - 10 Spears
6:30pm
Protein Chips 1 bag
PurePro Bar 1 bar
PreWO 8:30pm
Ezekiel Bread 2 slices
• Peanutbutter 1 tbsp
• Jam low sugar 1 tbsp
PurePro Bar 1 bar
PostWO 11:00pm
HydroWhey 1 scoop
ON 100% Whey 1 scoop
Amylopro Carbs 1 scoop
11:45pm
Chicken Breast 8oz
Light Tuna or Wild Salmon 1 pack/ 3oz
Brown Rice or Yam 1 cup/ 1 half
Pineapples 3oz
Syntha6 1 scoop
Casein 1 scoop
Cottage Cheese 1 cup
Protein Nuts 1 oz

*******************************************************************************************

Day 2

General Observations:
A few face flushes and quick headache lasted max for 5 mins. Mostly due to Ipa and adjustment to epistane dose. No different symptoms than what I've had before.

Weight: 263 lbs (morning weigh in water weight??)

Workout: Back / Biceps

Strength: Very slight endurance.(Cardarine kick in or placebo).

Drugs taken:
Epistane: 50mg (broken up 10 every 6 hours)
Cardarine: 20mg (preworkout)
Ostarine: 33mg (morning)
Ipamorelin: 700mcg ( 3x shots, I know not in the plan. But the sleep is phenomenal)

Diet:
8:45am

Eggs x 1 Whites x 5
⁃ Mushrooms 1 Cup
⁃ Green Onions 2 stalks
Oats 1 cup
⁃ TripZero Yogurt 2tbsp
⁃ Blueberry 1/2 cup
⁃ Syntha6 1 scoop
⁃ Fat Free Milk
12:00pm
Syntha6 1 scoop
Chicken Breast 4oz
Asaragus 8 - 10 Spears
6:30pm
Protein Chips 1 bag
PurePro Bar 1 bar
PreWO 8:30pm
Ezekiel Bread 2 slices
• Peanutbutter 1 tbsp
• Jam low sugar 1 tbsp
PurePro Bar 1 bar
PostWO 11:00pm
HydroWhey 1 scoop
ON 100% Whey 1 scoop
Amylopro Carbs 1 scoop
11:45pm
Chicken Breast 8oz
Light Tuna or Wild Salmon 1 pack/ 3oz
Brown Rice or Yam 1 cup/ 1 half
Pineapples 3oz
Syntha6 1 scoop
Casein 1 scoop
Cottage Cheese 1 cup
Protein Nuts 1 oz
 

ickyrica

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
Subbed.

If you want to stay anonymous you may want to talk with Millard about getting some of you collegiate details removed. If those stats you gave us (all American ranking and lineman ranking) are real they leave you exposed to LE.

Oh, and you sir are certainly detailed. Wish you the best.
 

Barry Strong

Junior Member
I'm subbed due to the amount of detail that is in this first post.


Thankyou franchise, if you only knew half of the details that I was keeping you would probably unsub lol.In respect for time, I will BLUE BOLD important parts.

There is a lot that I'm keeping track of that you guys would deem crazy such as, the amount of types 1,2 &3 collagen ( a protein that makes up the skin, joints tendons etc) from the foods I eat to along with the amounts found in my supplements. And which I have also previously recorded in my previous (non-injectable) cycle it relieves the dry joint side effect of epistane when running 60mg+.

And I am 100% aware that food and diet is everything. Each brand that I'm using, food market I'm buying my foods from, the amount of (unavoidable) preservatives that I'm also taking in is also why you see certain herbs in surplus in my supplementation. I have spent countless hours on the Momsforsafefood research forums, to know what exactly is put on/in my foods that the companies don't tell you about (like the glaze the spray on apples to make them glossy and shiny in the store called Shellac. and according to a study about apple coatings by the USDA's Agricultural Research Service, "Commercial apple coatings are either shellac or carnauba-shellac based. These materials are associated with nonfood uses such as floor and car waxes.") However, some are unavoidable so I'm just taking measures to counteract some of the unknowns that were brought to my attention while researching before this cycle.

I can really give you the full details of how I'm tracking my cycle but the admin might banned me for too long of posts. Idk? But I can indeed pm anyone interested. While preparing for my first injectable cycle my OCD kicked into overdrive. If I put that overdrive fully on display, I feel you guys will have me committed

Also as of yesterday
6ft. 5in. 3/4 (no clue how I shrunk from 1/4 in. in 2 1/2 weeks)
263lbs

:) Measurements and pictures are soon to come. Thanks again
 
Just so you're aware, collagen intake through diet has no impact on natural production or making collagen in your body any better. It's a complete waste.
 

Barry Strong

Junior Member
Just so you're aware, collagen intake through diet has no impact on natural production or making collagen in your body any better. It's a complete waste.

Hey, Docd187123 thanks for the reply. I would love for you to show some research on this proving ineffective. The studies I saw that were ineffective because it was either transdermal collagen where the molecules are too small to absorb any form of collagen (i.e lotions, oils, creams etc) and collagen that is not hydrolyzed or derived from collagen peptides.

In terms of diet, the British Journal of Nutrition stated "Collagen, like all proteins, is made up of amino acids. Of these amino acids, nine are considered essential, i.e. they cannot be synthesized by the body and must be acquired through the diet."

It is also stated that in terms of collagen production the following had a slight impact on increasing collagen synthesis on a molecular level:
  • Proline: found in egg whites, meat, cheese, soy(limited in diet) and cabbage
  • Anthocyanidins: found in blackberries, blueberries, cherries and raspberries
  • Vitamin C: found in oranges, strawberries, peppers and broccoli
  • Copper: can be found in shellfish, nuts, red meat and some drinking water
  • Vitamin A: found in animal-derived foods and in plant foods as beta-carotene.
From what I have learned so far, collagen is the major insoluble fibrous protein in the extracellular connective tissue. And those cells produce small molecules called pro collagen. Those same molecules then use bind themselves to the chemical properties of vitamin C and protein obtained through a person's diet in order to glue themselves to one another and form fibrils. Which is why I thought protein and vitamin C were essential to collagen production.

There are at least 16 types of collagen, but I only track 1,2&3 intake because that's what 90 percent of the collagen in the body consists of. So that is the reason I would think intake would affect production

In terms of peptides being a complete waste According to researchgate study on Oral supplementation of "specific" collagen peptides...

"Collagen hydrolysate (CH) has long been used in pharmaceuticals and food supplements for improving skin and cartilage tissues. In this form it is readily absorbed in the digestive tract, appears in the human blood partly in a small peptide from"

Name of study:
Oral Supplementation of Specific Collagen Peptides Has Beneficial Effects on Human Skin Physiology: A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study conducted by CRI, Collagen Research Institute, Kiel. and
Department of Cell and Developmental Biology, Institute of Biomedical Sciences,
University of São Paulo

And I do agree that although it can be somewhat proven to be absorbable by the body doesn't mean that this translate into increase strength or joint security. I have a few articles that went more into detail about this. But the one below is a study Collagen peptide supplementation in combo with resistance training and how it improves body composition and increases muscle strength, using older subjects with joint problems in a randomized controlled trial.

Collagen peptide supplementation in combination with resistance training improves body composition and increases muscle strength in elderly sarcopenic men: a randomised controlled trial

I am open and all ears to hear more of your insight on this. And I have been looking for more research that proves all the stated above wrong. Just because a few journals articles claim something still doesn't make it 100% truth
 
Hey, Docd187123 thanks for the reply. I would love for you to show some research on this proving ineffective. The studies I saw that were ineffective because it was either transdermal collagen where the molecules are too small to absorb any form of collagen (i.e lotions, oils, creams etc) and collagen that is not hydrolyzed or derived from collagen peptides.

In terms of diet, the British Journal of Nutrition stated "Collagen, like all proteins, is made up of amino acids. Of these amino acids, nine are considered essential, i.e. they cannot be synthesized by the body and must be acquired through the diet."

It is also stated that in terms of collagen production the following had a slight impact on increasing collagen synthesis on a molecular level:
  • Proline: found in egg whites, meat, cheese, soy(limited in diet) and cabbage
  • Anthocyanidins: found in blackberries, blueberries, cherries and raspberries
  • Vitamin C: found in oranges, strawberries, peppers and broccoli
  • Copper: can be found in shellfish, nuts, red meat and some drinking water
  • Vitamin A: found in animal-derived foods and in plant foods as beta-carotene.
From what I have learned so far, collagen is the major insoluble fibrous protein in the extracellular connective tissue. And those cells produce small molecules called pro collagen. Those same molecules then use bind themselves to the chemical properties of vitamin C and protein obtained through a person's diet in order to glue themselves to one another and form fibrils. Which is why I thought protein and vitamin C were essential to collagen production.

There are at least 16 types of collagen, but I only track 1,2&3 intake because that's what 90 percent of the collagen in the body consists of. So that is the reason I would think intake would affect production

In terms of peptides being a complete waste According to researchgate study on Oral supplementation of "specific" collagen peptides...

"Collagen hydrolysate (CH) has long been used in pharmaceuticals and food supplements for improving skin and cartilage tissues. In this form it is readily absorbed in the digestive tract, appears in the human blood partly in a small peptide from"

Name of study:
Oral Supplementation of Specific Collagen Peptides Has Beneficial Effects on Human Skin Physiology: A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study conducted by CRI, Collagen Research Institute, Kiel. and
Department of Cell and Developmental Biology, Institute of Biomedical Sciences,
University of São Paulo

And I do agree that although it can be somewhat proven to be absorbable by the body doesn't mean that this translate into increase strength or joint security. I have a few articles that went more into detail about this. But the one below is a study Collagen peptide supplementation in combo with resistance training and how it improves body composition and increases muscle strength, using older subjects with joint problems in a randomized controlled trial.

Collagen peptide supplementation in combination with resistance training improves body composition and increases muscle strength in elderly sarcopenic men: a randomised controlled trial

I am open and all ears to hear more of your insight on this. And I have been looking for more research that proves all the stated above wrong. Just because a few journals articles claim something still doesn't make it 100% truth

I'm confused now. In a previous post you mention collagen and joints, skin, etc somewhat implying you're taking them for those benefits.

The British Journal of Nutrition study you posted doesn't measure any of these things but instead things like strength and FFM. For strength and FFM you can take regular protein supplements (whey/casein) or no supplements at all and just increase your dietary protein intake. The study design Had the participants eating an hypo caloric diet as evidenced by them losing weight but also a diet of insufficient protein 0.9g/kg which equals out to slightly less than 0.5g/lb. it's not surprising that the trial group which took in an extra 15g of protein over the placebo group gained more lean body and lost more fat. The study should be redone with matched protein intakes bc as it stands, it doesn't so much speak about the efficacy of collagen supplementation but moreso on an increasing protein intake.

The other study done in Brasil you posted losted several measures of skin health (which I thought you were more interested in) but only one measure, skin elasticity, showed a statistically significant improvement over placebo. Having said that, it's HIGHLY suspicious why if skin elasticity was a primary outcome measure of theirs, then why did they not include the raw data??? That is very suspicious IMO. A primary outcome measure should have all the raw data presented. Furthermore, what clinical manifestation comes from this statistically sigmifocamt difference?
 

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