First Log: Sustanon, EQ, and TBol

Discussion in 'Steroid Cycle Log' started by Jackreature, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. Jackreature

    Jackreature Member

    What's up, y'all? This is my first log and I am super excited. Unfortunately, I am almost in to the 10th week of my cycle but its a long one at 24 weeks and I hope the best is yet to come. I can't wait to get all of your feedback, tips, criticisms, etc. on the cycle and the progress I make.

    I am 30 years old, 5'7", ~200 lbs. upon waking at approx 19% BF prior to the cycle (I took an electrical impedence measurement on a supposedly "high-quality" BIA scale and added 3% to its calculation since they are typically 2 - 4% less than your true BF %).

    I am on a slow cut with the aim of maintaining as much muscle and strength as possible while reducing total weight by about 25 lbs. into the mid-170s, and BF% to approx 10%. If I achieve my goal, approximately 80-85% of my weight loss will be fat, which I believe to be just within the realm of possibilities with the assistance of AAS.

    I have been training pretty seriously for about 10 years, with a few extended breaks of 1-4 months sprinkled in here and there (I could make excuses why but they would be just that - excuses), and was natural until just under 3 years ago. When I was natural, my peak shape was 157lbs very lean and my biggest was 175 lbs. not so lean lol. Being natural is tough, especially if you are trying to gain muscle haha. Now, I hope to be 175 and as, if not more, shredded then I was at 157 natural by the end of this cycle.

    My first cycle was a simple 375mg per week of Sustanon for 10 weeks and I followed that up with a second cycle at 500mg Sustanon for 12 weeks. My third cycle, I moved the Sustanon back down to 375mg but added EQ at 400mg and ran this for 16 weeks. My fourth cycle was Sustanon at 250mg, Deca at 500mg, and Primo at 400mg for 12 weeks. That cycle was the tits and by far my most successful. I got a little too fat and watery but the muscular gains were tremendous and I am hoping they are fully exposed by the end of this cycle. I have pretty much met all of my cycle goals thus far and have yet to experience the more bothersome sides like gyno, severe acne (I get zits but don't get full blown breakouts like others), balding, extremely high BP, etc. so I am hoping for the same on this cycle. And that brings us to now:

    I am running 625mg Sustanon for 24 weeks. I pin 1.25cc every Sunday and Thursday. Beginning on week 11 (first day is July 29th) I will add 50mg of TBol daily for 7 weeks as well as 450mg EQ for the final 14 weeks. I will be adding .75cc of EQ into my Sunday and Thursday shots of Sustanon for this. All gear is from SAS labs.

    My diet is good, keeping calories as high as I can while still ensuring that I am losing at least .5 lb per week. I am essentially using a carb and calorie cycling method with 4 low days per week at about 1800 cals and about 50 grams carbs, 2 med days at about 2200 cals and about 150 grams carbs, and 1 high day at about 2600 cals and 300 grams carbs and will go Keto (without a "refeed" - god I hate that word) for the final 4 weeks to hopefully strip away the last of the fat I want to get rid of. I keep my protein at about 200 grams per day and let fats take the rest of the calories.

    My training is sort of a blend of Starting Strength and basic hypertrophy training. I lift 4 x per week, 2 of those are strength sessions (1 day is squat, bench, dead and the other is squat, overhead press, dead) and the other 2 sessions are hypertrophy oriented (chest, back and arms one day and shoulders and legs the other). I also use my chest day as a 2nd opportunity to get in a heavy bench so I usually work up to either 3x5 or 5x3 to start that workout. Also, I do brisk walks for my cardio basically everyday. Sometimes this is in the form of 1 solid 45 min to an hour walk or broken up into 2, 3, or even 4 shorter walks.

    Finally, after 9 weeks, I can say things are going well. I have actually increased my strength on my big lifts, lost about 10lbs thus far, and, most importantly, am looking better naked lol. I also feel and look as if no muscle has been lost at all, but then again you always look bigger when you are leaner. I have suffered some pimples here and there and water retention that I have staved off mostly with adex .5mg 2-3x per week and good diet with appropriate water and sodium intake so I am doing well in terms of sides. Also, I have

    I think that pretty much covers it! Also, please be sure to check out my pre cycle bloods in the notepad I attached below...I will be getting bloods done again in the beginning of the 16th week to see what they look like while all 3 compounds are peaking. That should be pretty interesting lol. Other than that, I am looking forward to hearing everybody's input, feedback, criticism, advice, suggestions, experiences, etc.

    Thanks

    -Jack
     

    Attached Files:

    DrankSlangin, Worf and Morefyah like this.
  2. Morefyah

    Morefyah Member

    Ah better late the never. So Jack you have already dropped 10lbs in ten weeks? Well done man, but I bet you could have done that without gear. What body fat do you think your sitting at now? I think the reason your not getting a lot comments is because your kinda winging it and you started at 20% BF.

    I think you would be better off if you get on an actual program instead of what your doing now. I am not going to analyze everything that’s your doing. I honestly think you can make a much better transformation with a little help. If @Atlas_Physiques is taking anymore clients I think you would be a perfect candidate. They know there shit!
     
    Atlas_Physiques likes this.
  3. Jackreature

    Jackreature Member

    Hmm little strange to me that people wouldn’t comment because of my starting point or perceived lack of direction. I mean, does your starting point even matter - isn’t just about achieving your personal goals whatever they may be? Like I wouldn’t not comment on somebody’s stuff because they were currently fatter then me or weaker then me...I would want to teach that person so they can eventually be leaner and stronger then me. Seems like those should be the people who get the most help honestly...but then again who am I to say who should and shouldn’t get attention lol?

    Anyways, now that I got that off my chest, have you ever run any programs from the guys you are talking about? I am an admitted coach hater because I just can’t see what a coach is possibly going to program, do, or say that is gonna be any different then anything I could just do myself. Also, if they are focused on looks they are not for me. I don’t train for looks. I train to be as strong, endurant, and healthy as possible so I can succeed in my personal endeavors and competitions as well as perform at the most optimal level in my profession. I’ve walked around below 5% BF and hated every minute of it although I looked the best I ever have. I walk around at 15-20 and I feel like a million bucks, I’m strong as an ox, and I can work a 24 hour shift without blinking an eye. However, I am willing to change my mind if I was really blown away by some knowledge they drop or some shit like that - I almost got coaxed into buying a John Meadows program simply because I agree so much with the science and the theories he uses: frequent, intense training but, again, his programs are generally all focused on improving your look and that’s just not my focus. Does atlas post on this forum and if they do can you point me in their direction?

    Thanks!

    - Jack
     
  4. Go into training forums.. they have their own thread it should be one of the top 10.

    I’ve never heard a bad thing about @Atlas_Physiques they seem very motivated to get to know a lot about clients and their lives and obstacles and do a fine job at catering to them.

    On the other hand if someone possesses the determination and discipline yeah they could absolutely do their own research, figure out a diet and how to balance macros and go through some trial and error, and the same would go for developing their own training routine the information out there is endless it’s just taking the time to find it and learn about it and put it all together , find what you like, and make it work for you and your daily life and future goals and aspirations.

    Lastly is one doesn’t have the time or motivation to yeah a coach could easily do a diet for you, or as your stated you could go to someone like John meadows(whom I have most of his programs now I love his approach and techniques and science behind bodybuilding) and purchase a training program so you don’t even have to think about it. Just look at the day of the week and boom it’s laid out.

    Edit: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/atlas-physiques.134392167/

    That’s the link for @Atlas_Physiques
     
    Jackreature likes this.
  5. Eman

    Eman Member

    Subbed.

    What competitions are you participating in?

    If the programming is working for you, sounds like you should stick with it. At first glance it sounds like it may be too basic for your level but again, if it's working then I wouldn't change anything. I'm not a fan of some of the methodology in starting strength though.

    I am doing a Meadows program right now and really enjoying it... Totally different than I'm accustomed to. He does have a powerlifting/bodybuilding combo program that I want to try at some point... If you were looking for something of his to try, that might be up your alley.
     
  6. The program your talking about is called “Program X”
     
    DrankSlangin and Jackreature like this.
  7. Eman

    Eman Member

    Yep, I might give it a whirl after my current one... We'll see!
     
    FourOneDeuxFitt and Jackreature like this.
  8. Morefyah

    Morefyah Member

    I feel what your saying man @Jackreature.
    Its more about having all your ducks in row when you go on blast. It’s best having a set program to follow and if you’ve never followed a program for at least 10-20 wks (the length of your blast) then your selling yourself short. Also starting a cycle at close to 20% bf is usually frowned upon, not just on this forum but everywhere.

    You will see a much better results starting at 15% BF or below. Also having a coach takes the guesswork out of all this and it’s a great learning tool as you proceed down the road on your own. What you learned should stick with you forever, different from reading a book or watching a video.

    If your only goal is to feel good, gain a little muscle and lose some fat. Then the 20 week blast your on isn’t necessary.

    Please don’t take offense..
     
  9. Jackreature

    Jackreature Member

    So, I wasn’t gonna do daily training and diet logs but I figure that’ll give people some more insight into my diet and training protocols and hopefully get me some more direct and specific feedback and insight from other members. I’m lifting today (Tuesday, July 24th) and I lifted Sunday and so here is Sunday’s workout and Sunday and Monday’s diet and I will post Today’s workout and diet later on:

    Sunday, July 22nd, Medium Day
    Diet
    :
    Meal 1
    2 eggs (omega 3 egg yolks)
    4 egg whiteshey
    4 strips bacon
    2 packages sugar free oatmeal
    Large coffee with lactose free Half n half
    608 cals, 50g P, 48g C, 24g F

    Meal 2 (2 hours preworkout)
    1 scoop whey isolate
    2 eggs
    4 oz flank steak
    1 wrap
    603 cals, 62g P, 33g C, 23g F

    Meal 3 (post workout)
    2 scoops whey isolate
    1 cup pineapple juice
    1 cup coconut water
    1 banana
    478 cals, 44g P, 71g C, 2g F

    Meal 4
    8 oz grass fed 90/10 ground beef
    Broccoli
    1 TBS Coconut OilPPP
    558 cals, 49g P, 3g C, 39g F

    Totals:
    2232 total cals
    205g P
    155g C
    88g F

    Supplements: GNC Mens multivitamin, 2 ES Fish Oil

    Gear and ancillaries: 312.5mg Sustanon

    Cardio: 35min brisk outdoor walk upon waking, 30min brisk walk immediately after meal 4

    Workout: Chest (strength and hypertrophy), Back (strength and hypertrophy), Tris (strength and hypertrophy), Bis (hypertrophy)

    Flat Bench Press
    Warmup: Bar
    1x10

    Warmup: 135#
    1x8

    Warmup: 185#
    1x6

    Warmup: 225#
    1x5

    Warmup: 275#
    1x4

    Warmup: 305#
    1x2

    Working: 315#
    2x5

    Working: 320#
    1x5

    Incline Bench Press
    Warmup: 225#
    1x12
    1x10
    Working: 275#
    1x8
    2x7

    Incline Dumbbell Fly
    1x50sx12
    1x60sx12
    1x70sx12
    1x80sx11
    Dropx60x12

    Barbell Row
    Warmup: Bar
    1x12

    Warmup: 135#
    1x10

    Warmup: 185#
    1x8

    Warmup: 225#
    1x6

    Working: 255#
    1x11

    Working: 265#
    1x10

    Working: 275#
    1x10

    Hammer Strength Plate Loaded Lat Pull down
    Warmup: 45 per side
    1x15

    Warmup: 70 per side
    1x10

    Warmup: 90 per side
    1x8

    Working: 115 per side
    1x14
    1x15
    1x12 slow stretch and fast contraction

    Hammer Strength Plate Loaded Lat Pullover
    Warmup: 45 per side
    1x12

    Warmup: 70 per side
    1x10

    Working: 90 per side
    1x12

    Working: 95 per side
    1x12

    Working: 105 per side
    1x9
    Drop x 80 per side x 8

    Close Grip Bench
    Warmup: Bar
    1x12

    Warmup: 135#
    1x8

    Warmup: 185#
    1x6

    Warmup: 205#
    1x5

    Warmup: 225#
    1x3

    Working: 245#
    1x8

    Working: 255#
    2x6

    FST 7: Triceps Rope Pressdown
    5x60x12
    1x60x11
    1x60x10
    Superset With:
    FST 7: Biceps Cable Curl with EZ Bar
    7x95x12

    Monday, July 23rd, Low Day
    Diet
    :
    Meal 1
    2 eggs (omega 3 egg yolks)
    4 egg whites
    4 strips bacon
    Large coffee with lactose free Half n half
    398 cals, 46P, 8g C, 22g F

    Meal 2
    8 oz chicken breast
    1 TBS coconut oil
    1 TBS olive oil
    Green Squash
    483 cals, 48g P, 3g C, 31g F

    Meal 3
    8 oz grass fed 90/10 ground beef
    Broccoli
    372 cals, 49g P, 1g C, 19g F

    Meal 4
    1 scoop whey isolate
    1 scoop casein
    2 TBS Peanut Butter
    431 cals, 57g P, 8g C, 19g F

    Totals
    1687 cals
    200g P 800 cals
    20g C
    91g F

    Supplements: GNC Mens multivitamin, 2 ES Fish Oil

    Gear: N/A

    Cardio: 50min brisk outdoor walk between meals 2 and 3

    Workout: N/A

    Hope this provides some more detail and insight into my protocols. Gonna be hitting the gym in a few hours and hopefully will get a solid squat, dead, and OHP session in!

    -Jack
     
    DrankSlangin, Worf and Morefyah like this.
  10. Jackreature

    Jackreature Member

    No - none taken at all, man. Sorry if I came off defensive but I didn’t mean it that way...I really do my best not take this shit personally cause that’s the best way to improve.

    I am curious to hear the theory, logic, and/or science behind the “don’t start a cycle higher than 15% BF” though. Is this based on the correlation between higher BF and increased aromatase activity? I really can't think of anything else that that advice would be based on. If your bloods are straight, including cholesterol, and you have normal BP then your BF % shouldn't really matter given that you remain vigilant in your battle with the aromatase enzyme.

    I’ve been running a set program since day one of the cycle.

    I developed specific macro counts for each of my 3 (low, medium, high) carb/calorie cycle points based on TDEE, my particular goals, and what has worked for me in the past. I have made adjustments based on weekly pictures that I and my workout partners critique. Also, I am vigilant on macro timing as will be evidenced by my diet logs. I have not cheated once on my diet - I also don't do cheat meals. They are completely unnecessary IMO unless you need a mental break.

    I am using LISS cardio to not waste the energy that I want to use to build strength but I still want to be able to burn a little extra calories and keep some cardiovascular health. I break up the walks when I have to because it is just not reasonable for me to expect to have full hour gaps of time on a daily basis independent of my strength training but I still want to ensure I get around an hour daily no matter how.

    All 4 strength training sessions I am using are tailored specifically to my goals...increase or maintain strength in the main lifts, while losing mostly BF so I can compete at a lower weight class and hopefully match or beat the PRs I set at the higher weight class. I was competing in the 205 and I plan to compete in the 182 class but I am dropping to the mid 170s to see how my body looks and feels there and see if I could potentially be in a position to drop enough water to make it in to the 163 division but this is unlikely. The training has been adjusted slightly as particular weaknesses have shown themselves or if I strongly feel that another movement could produce better results in the main lifts.

    I am not a huge supplement fan but do like protein powders for their convenience, multivitamins and multiminerals just to ensure I'm not missing any micronutrients, and fish oil to help with cardiovascular health.

    I am running the gear I am, in the dosages I am, and on the timing I am due to a litany of research and logic. I'll spare you the specific research but give you the logic I derived from it. I knew I had to up the Test dose if I was going to have any success using it alone for a significant period of time so that is what I did. I have had a great effect from 625mg per week alone, honestly. Its been great for strength. After 10 weeks, the TBol and EQ are being added in for several reason. By this point, my body will be mostly non-responsive to the Test alone but adding EQ in alone would take too long and would leave me with a period of sub optimal results for about 4 weeks. Therefore, the TBol was put in to bridge that gap, essentially allowing the EQ to build up while I am able to give my body an immediate hormonal surge with the TBol. TBol is also a great strength/athletic performance AAS plus it is known for its synergistic effects with other AAS so I feel it makes the perfect oral for my particular goals. I am attaching a graph of the AAS release starting from day one and running the course of 30 weeks to illustrate why I feel this is a good plan.

    Now, in terms of the gear being "necessary," it is, of course, never actually "necessary" lol. I could do all of this natural, I just wouldn't do it as well. I would lose far more strength on a cut without the gear and likely a bit more muscle even with a perfect diet. That is my reason for using it - I don't use gear to lose fat in a cut; I use it to maintain the muscle and strength. That is why I am a fan of EQ - its perfect for that. AAS is not in anyway designed to be a fat burner (although it does help a bit) and I kinda chuckle to myself when I hear about people using tren for the thermogenic effect - I mean, jeez, if you want thermogenesis just pop some clen lol.

    Thanks for sharing your perspective and I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts now that I have shared more specifics with you. I know you have a ton of experience and really respect your opinion.

    Thanks,

    -Jack
    Cycle 5 Graph.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  11. I’ve never done any type of powerlifting before. I have the program and looked over it. It’s very interesting. Nothing like I’ve ever done in terms of training style so I’m pretty curious about it myself.
     
    Eman likes this.
  12. Jackreature

    Jackreature Member

    Currently, as it relates to strength training and AAS, I am in to powerlifting but I just love to compete in any type of athletic endeavor. I've run a sub 3 hour marathon and a sub 1:25 half, I have completed a few triathlons but I am not so proud of those times lol, and was really in to trail and obstacle course running over the past few years. I've done a couple of powerlifting meets and strength meets (they substitute the OHP for the BP in a strength meet, which I love) recently and that's my focus now. I've been fighting my whole life; I started in TaeKwonDo really young because my Uncle was a Sensei and I competed in the Junior Olympics twice (never made it past the quarters and got my ass kicked in the knockout round, which is the first round, my first time). More recently, I got in to MMA and boxing since its much easier to find people and places to spar with. I played RB in football through high school (HS football taught me the importance of strength training for basically all athletics) and still play in a competitive touch tackle league every spring with a group of friends (its 7 man teams with a required 3 man O-line). I played baseball through high school and am in a fast pitch softball league currently and every summer. My pride and glory though is golf: I've been playing at a very high level since junior high school; my handicap hangs around scratch and I routinely win local tournaments and have competed on the national amateur level. I also play once and sometimes twice a week in a traveling men's club for significant amounts of money; no question that strength training and AAS have helped me here as well. So, yeah, I will basically compete in anything lol. However, right now, my training is all about succeeding at my next powerlifting meet and keep the golf and softball game going well while I also get my ass in better shape for football.

    I agree that Starting Strength and the Texas Method need some adjusting as you progress but I do think that it is a generally sound and simple progressive overload program. What are your criticisms of Starting Strength?

    Thanks!

    -Jack
     
  13. Jackreature

    Jackreature Member

    That's the one I almost purchased. If you end up purchasing and running it @Eman please let us know how it goes. Would love to follow a log on that!
     
  14. Eman

    Eman Member

    I think there needs to be more volume... Rippetoe is uber conservative on volume and I think it hurts beginner lifters that are capable of more volume.

    You like to compete alright, lol.

    I have it already, I just didn't run it yet... I have every published JM program that exists. I think I have every article he's ever written as well lol... I have a ton of digital content.
     
  15. Geeze you even have the programs that aren’t available on his site anymore??? If that’s so I’m jealous!! Haha. I have damn near all them myself except for a select few.
     
    Jackreature likes this.
  16. Eman

    Eman Member

    There's parts of it that would be good for bodybuilders that want to play around with powerlifting... But it lacks some detail on % of 1rm that would improve it for powerlifting. But, it would also be nice for powerlifters that just want to kind of play around with hypertrophy and focus less on so many %'s.
     
    FourOneDeuxFitt likes this.
  17. Eman

    Eman Member

    Yeah I think I counted 25 or so lol...
     
    Jackreature and FourOneDeuxFitt like this.
  18. I need to get my hands on the rest of them. I only have 16 of them counting the arm training manual. Also missing the new back training manual.
     
  19. I think I’m gonna give it a go. I have two weeks left of Gamma Bomb and why not try something completely new.
     
    Jackreature and Eman like this.
  20. Eman

    Eman Member

    I was thinking of trying that one next too... Decisions decisions.

    I'd like it if he had a program with more free weight emlhemph though... He has a lot of machine work. I don't feel right doing machine press over bench!
     
    FourOneDeuxFitt likes this.