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Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by CubbieBlue, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    I have taken a round of Levaquin and a few Cipro within the last year to deal with prostatitis. Within the last three weeks I have also come down with tendonitis in both thumbs, both forearms, a bit in my neck, and plantar fasciitis.

    While I initially figured these were just repetitive stress injuries, and old injuries flared up, but I am now confident that the quinolones are the cause for the flare up. I hope they continue to heal, but I am curious:

    When reading about quinolones on the web you hear every bad story there is regarding tendon rupture, CNS problems, etc. etc. Now quinolones are also one of the most common drugs prescribed in the either we are in for a huge fucking problem or many people take these without an adverse drug reaction.

    So I am wondering - who where has EVER taken a quinolone: Levaquin, Cipro, Avelox, etc.

    And if you have - have you ever experienced any side effects? Tendonitis? The effects of these drugs seem particularly insidious, and apparently can cause ~6 months after cessation.

    I suck at taking breaks from training but I am going to force myself to take it easy for the next month in the hopes this clears up.
  2. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    Anyone? Nobody else here has ever taken cipro or levaquin?

    I am in bad shape. Pain in both hands, wrists, fingers, eblows, neck, weird muscle pains in feet, heel, knees.

    Fucking weird how this is presenting. Getting carpal tunnel like numbness when sleeping. Could also only sleep an hour last night. The people with these side effects talk about them in "cycles" and that is definitely how they have presented themselves.

    Got a doctor appointment tomorrow.

    I am extremely depressed about this. Crying like a little bitch all day. Would have offed myself if not for my girlfriend.
  3. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    From a quick search, fluoroquinolone has a record of musculoskeletal concerns. Be sure to tell the doctor. Check out the package insert: DailyMed: About DailyMed Also, the following:

    Greene BL. Physical therapist management of fluoroquinolone-induced Achilles tendinopathy. Phys Ther 2002;82(12):1224-31. Physical Therapist Management of Fluoroquinolone-Induced Achilles Tendinopathy — Physical Therapy

    BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE: Use of fluoroquinolone antibiotics is reported to be a cause of adverse musculoskeletal effects, such as tendinopathies and tendon ruptures. The purpose of this case report is to describe the management and outcomes of a patient with bilateral Achilles tendinopathy secondary to fluoroquinolone antibiotic use.

    CASE DESCRIPTION: The patient was a 41-year-old man who developed bilateral Achilles tendon pain on the third day of levofloxacin use. The physical therapy intervention consisted of an initial phase to reduce stress on the tendon through the use of crutches and orthoses and a second phase to progressively stress the tendon through exercise and functional activities.

    OUTCOMES: After 11 weeks of physical therapy (14 treatments), the patient's pain decreased from 3/10 to 1/10 on a visual analog scale and his Lower Extremity Functional Scale score increased from 28/80 to 71/80.

    DISCUSSION: An overlapping 2-phased intervention approach based on connective tissue remodeling principles may be effective in elimination of pain and restoration of function following fluoroquinolone-induced Achilles tendinopathy.
  4. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    Thanks Mike.

    This stuff is particularly insidious. From the reports I have read saying that EVERY dose of this stuff is toxic, I wonder how much longer it will be on the market.

    I've talked to a few lawyers, and apparently unless this shit cripples me I am SOL.
  5. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    Also how fucked up is my life that I go from one thing to this. What the fuck.

    Does anyone have any good information on using steroids and HGH to facilitate tendon and muscle repair?
  6. 1erCru

    1erCru Member

    My prostatitis completely disappeared the first time I took low dose zoloft. Years later I have other probs related to SSRI use, still food for thought. Low dose remeron also seems to work.
    Posted from my iPhone
  7. tbach

    tbach Member

    I have taken Cipro, but it has been years ago . . . for persistant urinary track infections and epididimytis. Now that I think back, that may have been the time that I suffered so much foot pain that I literally crawled from my bed in the morning to turn off the alarm clock! At the time, I attributed it to lower back problems. In time, the pain lifted and I was able to go on with life, but never really pain free.

    But the pains you describe are identical to the pains I had while on Crestor and Lipitor . . . and also high doses of no-flush-niacin not so very long ago. Actually my ED reared it's ugly head (no pun intended) while on Crestor, and I'm still fighting that. At least the pain - heals, elbows, thumbs - went away. It took several months, and when it was gone I realized how bad the pain really had been. For some reason, my body tolerates pravachol or pravastatin, so I continue taking it . . . sometimes wondering why, since current literature indicates that cholesterol may not be the monster in the closet it has been made out to be, and for some of us the use of statins and the lowering of cholesterol levels may not be the best thing..

    Good luck to you. Having to give up your workouts is a bummer. I am also addicted to exercise, but it's better for me than the food addiction that led me close to an early grave. At the beginning, exercise was for health . . . but it's way beyond that now.
    CrispyRockClimber likes this.
  8. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    Can anyone provide information (or point me in the right direction) for using steroids, peptides, and hormones for healing tendons and muscles?

    What is the state of stem cell usage in this country now?
  9. bax

    bax Member

    If I were you I would consider looking into the ghrps and ipamorelin along with mod grf 29. All you will need is a low dose of each every night and I would be shocked if you didnt start experiencing relief within a week or two. I had chronic lower back pain that these peptides cleared up within a couple weeks, it was pretty amazing. Only thing is you need to make sure you get them from a good source with high purity. But if I were you this is the route I would look into. If you have any questions pm me.
  10. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Anothaisintawee T, Attia J, Nickel JC, et al. Management of Chronic Prostatitis/ Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome. JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association;305(1):78-86.

    Context Chronic prostatitis/chronic pelvic pain syndrome (CP/CPPS) is common, but trial evidence is conflicting and therapeutic options are controversial.

    Objective To conduct a systematic review and network meta-analysis comparing mean symptom scores and treatment response among ?-blockers, antibiotics, anti-inflammatory drugs, other active drugs (phytotherapy, glycosaminoglycans, finasteride, and neuromodulators), and placebo.

    Data Sources We searched MEDLINE from 1949 and EMBASE from 1974 to November 16, 2010, using the PubMed and Ovid search engines.

    Study Selection Randomized controlled trials comparing drug treatments in CP/CPPS patients.

    Data Extraction Two reviewers independently extracted mean symptom scores, quality-of-life measures, and response to treatment between treatment groups. Standardized mean difference and random-effects methods were applied for pooling continuous and dichotomous outcomes, respectively. A longitudinal mixed regression model was used for network meta-analysis to indirectly compare treatment effects.

    Data Synthesis Twenty-three of 262 studies identified were eligible. Compared with placebo, ?-blockers were associated with significant improvement in symptoms with standardized mean differences in total symptom, pain, voiding, and quality-of-life scores of ?1.7 (95% confidence interval [CI], ?2.8 to ?0.6), ?1.1 (95% CI, ?1.8 to ?0.3), ?1.4 (95% CI, ?2.3 to ?0.5), and ?1.0 (95% CI, ?1.8 to ?0.2), respectively. Patients receiving ?-blockers or anti-inflammatory medications had a higher chance of favorable response compared with placebo, with pooled RRs of 1.6 (95% CI, 1.1-2.3) and 1.8 (95% CI, 1.2-2.6), respectively. Contour-enhanced funnel plots suggested the presence of publication bias for smaller studies of ?-blocker therapies. The network meta-analysis suggested benefits of antibiotics in decreasing total symptom scores (?9.8; 95% CI, ?15.1 to ?4.6), pain scores (?4.4; 95% CI, ?7.0 to ?1.9), voiding scores (?2.8; 95% CI, ?4.1 to ?1.6), and quality-of-life scores (?1.9; 95% CI, ?3.6 to ?0.2) compared with placebo. Combining ?-blockers and antibiotics yielded the greatest benefits compared with placebo, with corresponding decreases of ?13.8 (95% CI, ?17.5 to ?10.2) for total symptom scores, ?5.7 (95% CI, ?7.8 to ?3.6) for pain scores, ?3.7 (95% CI, ?5.2 to ?2.1) for voiding, and ?2.8 (95% CI, ?4.7 to ?0.9) for quality-of-life scores.

    Conclusions ?-Blockers, antibiotics, and combinations of these therapies appear to achieve the greatest improvement in clinical symptom scores compared with placebo. Anti-inflammatory therapies have a lesser but measurable benefit on selected outcomes. However, beneficial effects of ?-blockers may be overestimated because of publication bias.

    Attached Files:

  11. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    Yea, alpha-blockers and antibiotics are how my current urologist treats prostatitis as well.

    It appears that almost universally urologists use FQ's as the first line treatment for prostatitis because (accurately or not) they believe it has the best absorption into the prostate. I do not blame the doctors, but FQ's need to be restricted to life or death situations.

    Regardless, I am doing better than I was, but not nearly 100%.

    I am fairly certain I will make a 100% (or close to it) recovery, but it is going to take a couple of months.

    On the upshot I have learned a lot about tendonitis and if anyone has any treatment questions about it I am the guy to ask.
  12. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    Annnd the imsomnia sets in, well recorded by FQ sufferers.
  13. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    Surely there are better antibiotics for the prostate??? I dont know though. I did a round of Avelox last year when my Fall sinus infection that I have had annually for 10 years running JUST WOULD NOT FUCKING STOP. I went through a zpack and 10 days of Biaxin and nothing. It eased up and then developed into a nasty fucking bronchitis that would not quit. So finally I broke down an took the stuff. I was aware of the dangers, including CNS damage permanent.
    I barely lasted 8 of the 10 days. By day 6 the tendons in my forearms were so sore upon waking, I could not believe it. Achillies were straigned badly too. I did not shit right for a month. But I can tell you this. It knocked that chest / sinus shit out so hard, that I am cured. I did not even get it thiis year for the first time in 10 years straigt.!! They are incredibly risky. Its no secret, except that your doc wont tell you. The risk has to outweight as usual. He would not have given me the quinolone if it were not for the above lengthy scenario. Yes your tendons are at severe risk now. AND EVEN MORESO due to your pre-existing condition I would say....

  14. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    Yeah, I know it.

    I seem to be making a slow recovery back. Doing 5lb wrist curls and shoulder exercises at the gym like a little baby. My shoot for the moon goal is to be 100% by March 7, which gives me about two months. If I keep making the same linear progress, I would be golden. However, the tendonopathy presented with these drugs is weird. Patients report that it seems to cycle. Even my initial onset didn't occur in real severity until out of nowhere a month after I took it. I am hoping that was the acute phase and that i don't hit another one.

    BBC, let me warn you, since you had that reaction to them I would advise you NEVER to take them again. Once you have a reaction, your next reaction is guaranteed to be worse. My doctor went ahead and wrote on my sheet that I essentially an "allergic" to FQ's.
  15. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    I have read this is a cumulative effective type drug in many ways.. I belive it..

  16. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    Yep, me too. I truly believe that EVERYONE will eventually have ADRs to this drug at some dosage or another. For some it's 1000 mg for others its 100,000 mg, but you take enough of this shit and you will end up a cripple.
  17. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    Consider you are also thinking in terms of issues you are having. Now consider the potential CNS damage ranging from not knowing the difference between hot and cold, to outright irriversible psychosis. Now consider how many individuals may have taken a quinolone at some point and gone nuts. Example, a woman gives birth to a child and soon becomes unsound, schizo, or psycho. Was it truely a condition related to giving birth, or a drug used at the time. The list goes on... This is the cost of the progess & civilization of society. Most say a small price to pay. UNTIL ITS YOU..... Further we are ALL Aleady victimized, and moreso every day, by many new forces resulting and unknown... As in old days I am sure luck was a huge factor. In todays society one would at first think we have minimized the need for good luck. But in reality, that need may be increasing. Sheer numbers in population place space between us enabling the possiblity to see a favorably skewed picture. Social hiarchy enables this further. I anyone can not relate to what I am saying, then consider yourself blessed....

  18. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    I completely agree. As of 2002 FQ's were the most prescribed abx in the US, prescribed in 22 MILLION visits. (Elsevier). We are saying that tendon ruptures occur somewhere around 4% of the prescribed population. So that would be 880,000 in 2002 alone. I've also seen the quotes from a researcher who claims that 1/3rd of folks suffer a CNS side effect. So that's 7.2 million people with adverse CNS problems. What about people with tendonitis? I can't find any data on the incidence there but I would assume that it is a very likely side effect. So, maybe 5%? That's 1.1 million.

    So to put some size to those numbers: in 2002 the entire populations of Los Angeles (9.8m), Chicago (2.8m), New York City (8.4m), and Atlanta (.5m) were prescribed a quinolone. If you apply the percentages I used then nearly the entire City of Los Angeles has been screwed over by an ADR to this drug.

    After learning so much about this I have no doubt that in years to come we will find out that a large percentage of folks who think they have one disease actually have FQ toxicity. Chronic Lyme Disease and Fibromyalgia are two just off the top of my head.
  19. chemman

    chemman Member

    Now THAT is an interesting theory!
  20. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue Member

    Every morning when I wake up I am kind of anxious/scared to see how I am going to feel when I step out of bed. What's interesting is my joints seem stiff/poppy/cracky in the AM and then they don't crack much the rest of the day. When this first started I sounded like a damn bag of popcorn walking around.

    My body seems to be really healing. I am really wanting to do some lifting, but again, I don't want to screw myself up. Today I am going to buy some wrist wraps and some knee wraps to wear in the gym. I am going to start some light benching and do continue doing the bike. I am going to hold off on the squats for at least one more week.

    Neck: Seems to be almost 100%. Still stiff at times:
    Wrists/hands: Getting better and better but still have a ways to go.
    Achilles/Ankles/Feet: Substantially better but I know if I was on my feet for any length of time they would hurt.
    Knees: The real weak spot. I am not having very many "twinges" in them anymore unless I take an awkward stumble or something. On Saturday night I got drunk and ran with the dog around the block and the next day they were sore. Still sore today a bit.

    Hopefully I keep making great gains this week. I would hate to stall out anytime soon.

    I really think the peptides I have been supplementing with have been instrumental in this quick recovery.