HCG and hypothalmus/ pituitary shutdown

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by BBC3, Jun 12, 2009.

  1. #1
    BBC3

    BBC3 Well-Known Member

    OK, the question is: HOw long can I take hcg before it starts to cause irreversible (on longer term) suppression of my tiny little brain. I have not been prescribed HCG due to any type 1 or 2 issues, but i have been using to combat testicular shutdown while on TRT or higher doses of testosterone. So if there is anything to negative feedback does this actually apply to HCG usage. Maybe it does not even apply and HCG only "mimics", but I am sure there has to be some message going to my brain and telling it not to make LH, etc. for now while I am supping the HCG. SHOULD I WORRY ABOUT DURATION OF HCG USAGE further shutting my down.?
     
  2. #2
    pcgizzmo

    pcgizzmo Junior Member


    Using HCG will cause your pituitary to stop producing LH/FSH. Nothing you can do about this. I've never heard of irreversible suppression. If you stop HCG you should start producing LH/FSH again. I suppose there is the possibility I just have not heard of it.


    Paul
     
  3. #3
    pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Junior Member

    True but he said he was on TRT this shuts down the brain from sending LH and FSH and it's the hcg we take to active the LH and FSH cells in the body, brain and testis. As long as one does not do more then 500 IU's in a day nothing can go wrong. You would need to keep track of your Estradiol E2 levels but I know of no harm doing HCG been on it for yrs.
     
  4. #4
    BBC3

    BBC3 Well-Known Member

    SO THEN, this means that when we are prioritizing risk of shut down damage, the nuts are what is really the issue?? Is it the testicles that have the only chance of sustaining permanent physical damage? Do you guys think it matters how long on hcg as far as getting LH production up again, etc... Perhaps even the removal of exogenous HCG thus rendering my body with none should even better spike an even fuller return to LH and FSH production. Did we just agree that HCG substitution does not shut down natural LH, and that it is only the TRT (testosterone). I am also experimenting with DECA for joints and muscle growth. Whats the deal here. I understand the long half-life, but why the extensive shutdown. Is it a long remaining progesterone factor, or just the fact that Deca is simple that highly anabolic that it is elliciting the reaction. I could use a refresher course if someone is willing.
     
  5. #5
    pcgizzmo

    pcgizzmo Junior Member

    Sorry, I missed the TRT part. HCG will shut down natural LH as will TRT. I don't know if anyone is going to give you a for sure answer on permanent damage to the pituitary or testis. There are guys that have been on TRT for years and things are still working. Some are able to come off of TRT and start everything back naturally.

    Sorry, can't help you on the Deca.

    Paul
     
  6. #6
    bbone

    bbone Junior Member

    Sorry if I'm bringing up an old thread, but I believe this is EXACTLY why I'm having to go on TRT.

    I did several cycles before, all the same level of test, one with nolva only and a few with Nolva and clomid. I always bounced back within a few months, and had the bloodwork to prove it.

    On my last cycle about a year and a half ago I decided to try hcg using SWALES protocol of a bit throughout the cycle instead of all at the end.

    Long story short, it's 1.5 years later and my balls are fine, but my pituitary isn't making enough LH and FSH to tell them to produce enough testosterone. So I have secondary hypogonadism at the age of 33 and it seems to be irriversible.

    I tried ZMA, Tribulus, lots of full body workouts... I just can't bounce back from this and blood test after blood test all say the same thing > Low FSH, low LH, low free test and low syrum test.

    It's just something to think about. I know lots of people swear by HCG, but I wish I would have just kept it simple and stuck with Nolva as-needed and let my body do the work of returning to homeostasis.
     
  7. #7
    BBC3

    BBC3 Well-Known Member

    BUMP

    Could someone please explain "suicide inhibitors" and how they work, duration, long term effects. Particularly with regard to aromasin. Can percentage calculations be made. It is even possible to partially shut down E conversion with them.
     
  8. #8
    bbone

    bbone Junior Member

    Just got back from the fertility doctor and his assumption after talking about what I've done with steroids and how my several blood test results came back - is that my use (or abuse, rather) of hcg throughout my last cycle has done something to cause my hypothalamus from sending the gnrh hormone to my pituitary. They (my primary care physician and an endocrinologist( did MRIs and everything to find out if something was wrong with my pituitary (thought I had a pituitary adenoma - scared the shit out of me) but it seems to be fine. My testes are fine. My sperm is fine.

    I just want to share this experience with anyone who thinks about taking HCG. It may be great for you, but there are risks too. I wish I could do it over again and just stick to nolva for pct and let my body come back to homeostasis on its own.

    All previous cycles were fine. I bounced back easily. This last one has messed me up for a lifetime and the ONLY difference between this and the others is that I used HCG.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  9. #9
    jpac

    jpac Junior Member

    Great information...not actually what i was hoping to read as Im in my 5th week of hcg. Perhaps i should try nolva for a while it see how it works before continuing the hcg. how will u choose to treat your new found secondary condition?
     
  10. #10
    jpac

    jpac Junior Member

    Also, how much hcg were u taking? u used the word abuse and im interested. thx!
     
  11. #11
    pcgizzmo

    pcgizzmo Junior Member


    Did you use clomid after the cycle? This should have restarfed your HPTA.
     
  12. #12
    bbone

    bbone Junior Member

    I was using 250 iu 2x weekly of the hcg after the third week of cycle and ending the last week of cycle.

    I did take clomid.

    People have to understand that pct isn't always going to get you back on track. Steroids are steroids and they have risks, including permanent damage to your htpa. If you're willing to deal with the consequences (permanent TRT) then do your best to minimize those risks. But if you believe what you hear on the message boards sometimes about how you just take a bit of this and a bit of that and all the risk is gone... you may be in for a rude awakening.

    I haven't made up my mind what I'm going to do yet. There isn't really a treatment for secondary shutdown. Instead, they treat you with testosterone, which gives you primary hypogonadism in addition to your secondary.

    So I dunno... I'm currently on testosterone gel but I may try to go off again in a few months. I just needed a break from the depression, tiredness, etc...
     
  13. #13
    s0b

    s0b Junior Member

    What sort of restart does nolva provide you with??? Does it increase you testicular volume too, or is this later done only with the addition of hcg???

    Endocrinology... Very complicated subject for even the most qualified doctors let alone for us guinea pigs
     
  14. #14
    bbone

    bbone Junior Member

    Nolva will do nothing for your HPTA. It has nothing to do with your balls. Some people think that it will help because it reduces estrogen, but from my experience and studies I don't see that. It merely keeps estrogen from binding to the receptors, especially in breast tissue. Thus, it's still in your body.

    HCG is what you would take if you want to keep your testes going throughout a cycle, but then you risk damaging pituitary or hypothalymus (sp?) instead of just your testes. Most people on these and other forums swear by HCG. But I'm convinced it's what screwed up my system. I was FINE coming back from cycles. Then I decided to try HCG and WHAMMO >>> no more FSH and LH coming from my pituitary. The question is, did that start at the pituitary, or is my hypothalymus not sending gonadotropin releasing hormones to it? Either way, several tests indicate my testes are/were fine so I'm blaming this on the HCG.
     

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