HCG and nolvadex use at the same time

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by MR10X, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. #1

    MR10X Member

    I have been told that my recomendation to use hcg and clomid and nolvadex at the same time during pct is not good.What i have done use 1 10ml bottle of 5000iu HCG @ 500iu every three days so it will last for 30 days. I time my HCG and start it before i start PCT and let it overlap about a week into my PCT which i do for 4 to 5 weeks. My cycles are short 8 weeks and i dont use any HCG during my cycle,so i like to start the HCG while i am still on the cycle but at the end of the cycle to jump start my test production. I personally see no reason not to use HCH with Clomid and Nolvadex at the same time for a week,the nolvadex and clomid will take care of any estrogen problem that arise from the HCG. Is any reason to not use HCG and Clomid and Nolvadex at the same time,Dr scally even suggest using it with Clomid and Nolvadex in his PCT protocol.
  2. #2
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    Below I am speaking in general:

    Doing hcg during the cycle instead of after is like deciding to wear gloves before climbing up and down a lot of ropes to avoid your skin being abraded off, instead of deciding to let it get abraded off and then put on some cream and bandages.

    In other words, it avoids the problem in the first place rather than either deliberately or carelessly (not sure which is worse) allowing it to happen.

    Secondly, HCG interferes somewhat with recovery of LH production.

    Some people, and probably most people that put themselves into a situation where they need medical help, have already gotten themselves into a situation where for them, concurrent use of HCG and SERMs is indeed called for.

    But if planning in advance, it is not.

    With regard to your previous method, it's not optimal. Had you used HCG during the cycle, you could have started your pct immediately and recovery would likely have been faster. While 8 weeks of steroid use without HCG often doesn't result in much testicular atrophy (but sometimes does) still there was no reason to have any atrophy occur in the first place.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
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  3. #3

    Sworder Member

    Use the Nolvadex but save the Clomid until the HCG is out of your system. The main purpose of the Clomid is to stimulate LH production by attaching to Estrogen receptors in the brain making it think that the body has no estrogen and if your brain recognizes LH in your system won't stimulate production of more LH. This is the way I have understood it.

    I don't think it will hurt to use them both, I think it is a waste.
  4. #4
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    It's a waste if they are used at the same doses as they'd be used alone. That is totally unnecessary.

    If using both, my recommendation is to use each at half the dose as when used alone.

    Namely, when combining, clomid is at only 25 mg/day, and nolvadex at only 10 mg/day.

    This is not wasteful at all.
  5. #5

    MR10X Member

    So i can use HCG the last 4 weeks of 8 week cycle and then start the clomid and nolvadex.I started using steroids in the 1980's when there was no PCT,i never had problems with my system recovering after an 8 week cycle,i have done over 30 cycles and not had a problem.I only started doing PCT with my last 2 cycles.My first PCT i used HCG like i sugested and the second one which i am doing right now i didnt use any HCG,just Clomid and Nolvadex.I am going to get some blood work done first of the year to see what my hormone levels are.
    I guess thisstatement by Dr Scally has me confused,he says if you discontiue the HCG before LH is restored recovery will fail.
    "After AAS cessation the secretion of LH is nil. It will not be able to initiate T production until a certain stimulus LH level is reached. Studies have shown that the time for this to occur can be lengthy. Thus the idea is to ‘push’ the testicles with hCG and get them started. Once T production is initiated the dependent variable is LH. If the hCG is withdrawn without adequate LH to couple with the testicles return of HPTA functionality will fail."

    Read more from the MESO-Rx Steroid Forum at: How Do I Use HCG with Steroids?
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  6. #6
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    Yes, I'd prefer using the hcg the last 4 weeks of the cycle.

    Your previous method was miles better than what so many do. I believe you were very wise, in doing so many cycles, to have done them as 8 week cycles and the relatively slight difference of using HCG as you did and timing the pct as you did, as opposed to being able to have the PCT earlier, is relatively of a lot less importance, largely because of the cycles being only 8 weeks.

    I'm sure Dr Scally could speak for himself far better than I can try to explain, but my interpretation has been that he has generally worked with people who needed to come to a medical doctor for help. Those who were doing pretty well, as you have, have probably not as often been coming to him. It makes sense then that his observations and recommendations are at least in many instances directed towards more problematic cases. Some of his statements, such as what you quote, won't apply to someone who isn't getting himself into trouble in the first place.

    Or, will need to be interpreted in the sense that the problem he is talking about -- the testes not being able to respond to LH -- isn't existing because of the HCG use during the cycle, so the problem that he is warning about does not occur.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  7. #7

    MR10X Member

    Ok i understand now,he was using someone that had probably stayed on a cycle too long and shut their system down completely.His idea is to use hcg and see if they will respond to LH stimulation and if they dont theres not much that can be done obviously clomid or nolvadex will do nothng and they will need TRT. I never felt like i gained much after 8 weeks on a cycle and also 8 weeks of intense training pretty nuch exhaust my body and i was just flogging a dead horse trying to continue to make any worthwhile gains however small they might be. I dont have a problem getting off for while and look forward to backing off and recouperating.I know i will lose some of the muscle i gained but thats just the way it is and i accept that.It all comes back very quickly when i do start another. I remeber Jeff King who won MR USA that did a simanar at our contest as a guest said he didnt do any steroids for a year before he trained for the USA and he said he got a really good response to them when he started them.
  8. #8
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    Did you see back when Flex broke his neck, lost everything and I mean EVERYTHING, and regained it all very quickly?

    I don't know how many months it was, perhaps six months or even eight, but for the amount of increase achieved, it was amazing.

    As you say, regain can be quick.

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