Help interpreting blood work during and immediately after PCT

Discussion in 'Steroid Post Cycle Therapy and ASIH Treatment' started by kaizoku, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. kaizoku

    kaizoku Member

    Off the bat, yes, I know that blood work results will be skewed due to the presence of SERMS in my system, and that it will take several more weeks until I know whether or not I'll really be recovered. And yes, I know the length of my "cycle" was foolish and that it will take me quite a while to recover from, if I do at all.

    With that said, can anyone help me interpret what is going on with my levels?

    Been on self-prescribed TRT dose of test cyp at 150mg/wk (2x75mg/wk) for 6 months.
    Wife and I are planning on trying for a baby soon so I've decided to come off of everything and try to get back to "normal"

    Pre-cycle bloods:
    TT 311 ng/DL (348-1197)
    LH 6.3 mIU/ML (1.7-8.6)
    FSH 3.9 mIU/ML (1.5-12.4)
    E2 24.2 pg/ML (7.6-42.6)

    Now, these bloods were taken after a long weekend of drinking at a destination wedding, and approximately 6 months post-pct from my last cycle, so my test was probably suppressed a bit from lack of sleep, travel, alcohol, etc.

    Now for my PCT and PCT blood work:
    PCT was started 9 days after last injection and I started with an hcg blast for 4 weeks with 20mg ED of nolva overlapping for 2 weeks before starting clomid and continuing for 1 week after Clomid.

    Week 1-4 HCG 2000iu E3D
    Week 3-10 Nolva 20mg ED
    Week 5-9 Clomid 100/100/50/50/25

    Blood work at end of week 3:
    TT 337
    LH 4.5
    FSH 4.3
    E2 <15 (Did not do sensitive test)

    Blood work 1 week post PCT (yesterday)
    TT 371
    LH 17.7 <WTF!
    FSH 10.9
    E2 7.9

    My latest blood work is what concerns me.
    With LH that high and test not much higher than where it was after 2 weeks of HCG and 1 week of Nolva, I'm concerned that my balls still aren't working and that all that LH is desensitizing my LH receptors and Leydig cells.

    Can anyone help me interpret what any of this means?
    I'm concerned that maybe I never recovered from my previous cycle, and don't know what to do next other than wait it out.
     
  2. kaizoku

    kaizoku Member

    Forgot to add, was pinning hcg at 250iu 2x/week for the last 3 months prior to coming off and starting pct.

    All SERMS and HCG were from reliablerx.
    Prior to taking them, SERMS tested good using labmax and every vial of HCG tested good using pregnancy tests.

    Left testicle aches constantly, right comes and goes.
    Both are firm and normal size.
    All through PCT I had fantastic morning wood and balls felt big and full. During the week after discontinuing clomid I had no morning wood, and balls started riding high and tight and felt smaller but took .5mg adex 2 days ago and since then they've been riding lower and had morning wood today.
     
  3. kaizoku

    kaizoku Member

    Wow...figured SOMEONE might have some insight here.

    On Saturday I started 12.5mg clomid ED.
    Going to run for 4 more weeks and then get blood work again to see where I'm at.

    On day 4, already feeling better, balls feel bigger and are hanging lower, morning wood today too.
     
  4. Gaspar178

    Gaspar178 Junior Member

    Seems like your testicles aren’t responding to lh and fsh. What’s your age?
     
  5. kaizoku

    kaizoku Member

    Just turned 38.

    Found my blood work taken 3 months prior to my 311 TT results:

    This was in Feb 2017, 2-3 months post-pct from my last cycle:

    TT 452 ng/DL (250-1100)
    E2 25 pg/ML (<=39)
    FSH 4.4 mIU/mL (1.6-8)
    LH 3.5 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)

    So for some unknown reason my test shit the bed between Feb and May 2017, got back on test for 6 months, and now my balls aren't responding.
     
  6. Gaspar178

    Gaspar178 Junior Member

    My man, I would suggest you slow down on steroid use unless you’re prepared to go on permanent trt. I think this is a sign that your body will no longer be able to “come back” from your cycles. Give this some time. Minimum 6 months. If you can recover, then I would consider never going back on. If you don’t see much improvement, then trt might be your only option.

    Definitely hang tight in there and do your best to recover. Test bloodwork later on and go from there.
     
  7. Logan44551

    Logan44551 Member

    Not sure about your blood work, but your pct was all fucked up. Your not supposed to take hcg while on serns for pct it is counterproductive. Hcg shuts you down, if your going to run hcg after cycle, do it leadimg up to the introduction of clomid and nolva, not during!
     
    Jay Monks likes this.
  8. kaizoku

    kaizoku Member

    According to who?

    And even if that were true, a 2 week overlap of HCG and 20mg nolva shouldn't be that counterproductive.
     
    Burrr likes this.
  9. Logan44551

    Logan44551 Member

    According to science, do some reading my man. Hcg isn't supposed to be taken during pct.
     
  10. kaizoku

    kaizoku Member

    Got links to scientific studies that agree with your statement?

    @Michael Scally MD would probably disagree with you.
     
    Burrr likes this.
  11. Logan44551

    Logan44551 Member

  12. Your lh and fsh is on the high side but your TT and estrogen is on the low side, this indicate your pituitary is sending a strong signal but your testicles are obviously not performing to the highest level.

    Obviously you are just coming off pct and must wait for your lh and fsh to normalize. Right now lh and fsh are still elevated due to the serms.

    Wait 2 more week to redo bloodworks to see where your lh and fsh really are and if your testicles are performing better after the decrease in fsh and lh.

    If it's leydig cell desensitization it may take longer for your balls to recover. Never run more than 250ius of hcg twice per week.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  13. kaizoku

    kaizoku Member

    Generally I would agree with you.

    But...when someone has difficulty recovering (I have with past cycles) and they've been shut down for longer than a normal cycle (6 months this time) a more intense PCT can be needed.
     
  14. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    Do an hcg stim test. Take 1000iu HCG EOD for a week or two then test bloods to check TT
     
  15. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    There can be some slight overlap with HCG and SERMs during the PCT.
     
  16. kaizoku

    kaizoku Member

    Thanks @Docd187123

    I've been taking 12.5mg clomid ED for the last week.

    Am I right to assume I should discontinue the Clomid and give it a couple weeks to clear out of my system as much as possible prior to starting the HCG?
     
  17. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    Yes I would stop the clomid
     
  18. kaizoku

    kaizoku Member

    Appreciate the help.

    I'll give it a little time to clear out, do the hcg stim test and follow up in here with results.
     
    Docd187123 likes this.
  19. Logan44551

    Logan44551 Member

    I stand corrected, i guess i have some more reading to do. That is the first I've heard of that. Everything I've read says to stop hcg prior to starting SERMs.
     
  20. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    There only needs to be a week overlap between hCG/SERM. The only reason why they were administered at the same time in the published studies was for patience compliance. It might seem easy, but getting patients to take meds according to different schedules is harder than it appears.
     
    mands, kaizoku, Docd187123 and 2 others like this.