Help me interpret my thyroid results

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by newtpig, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. #1
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    Ive been tuning my thyroid dosing and my last blood test showed this:

    TSH: 0.068 range:0.450-4.500 LOW
    T4 serum: 0.81 range:0.82-1.77 LOW
    t3,free,serum: 3.7 range:2.0-4.4

    Doc wants me to lower my dosage, but ive been lowering slowly over time and now am getting symptomatic again and feeling cold all the time, even when its 72+ degrees in the house and im wearing my coat. When my T3 was higher, it felt so good to feel warm again.

    Seems like he is putting too much emphasis on TSH. My T4 is LOW. And the active T3 is mid range, so whats the problem? I just dont trust my TSH.

    Im using one Thyroid-S pill a day which is 60mg.
    My average body temp is 98.2 ( I average my 9am, 12 and 3pm temps).

    What do you guys think??
     
  2. #2
    m_ob

    m_ob Member

    You need to check reverse t3. That will tell what's going on. I'd also get a cortisol draw.
     
  3. #3
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    I got a reverse t3 blood draw last time, but had to push for it.
    Doc told me it was fine, but didnt give me the damn numbers! ARGH.
     
  4. #4
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    Cortisol numbers are mid range in the morning and weak the rest of the day.
     
  5. #5
    zkt

    zkt Member

    t3 has ~10 times the biologic activity of T4, and your T3 is fine.
    Excess T4,3 tends to cause hypertension for one thing.
    Hows your BP run? Hypertension causes one to feel cold.
    Sedentary lifestyle?
    Get the thryoid hormone high enough and it will definitely warm you up.
    112mcg is a full replacement dose.



     
  6. #6
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    I exercise HARD 3X a week and am in good shape at 9-10% body fat, good diet, over 40.
    I track my 12pm blood pressure daily and my current average is 113/69
    Resting heart rate: 62
     
  7. #7
    BBC3

    BBC3 Well-Known Member

    And you are complaining about what?? damn i wish I could ever get back in the shape cardio wise...

    Just a Brief note. They are your records. You can get copies of whatever you want from the docs office, even archived records can be pulled if necc. They are yours. Get them... They should make you copies always if you request...



     
  8. #8
    hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Active Member

    Your adrenals are probably weak or ferritin levels are low causing it to build up in the blood stream not getting to the tissue

    Look at adrenals and ferritin as I see this commonly in people.
    Was the pill taken morning of the test ?
    You also could be an over converter, but more then likely adrenal saliva would be the way to go.
    I would also check reverse t-3
    This is mariano trade mark testing. ..Dio you go see him...If so I am sure he will jump on adrenals
    nutrient imbalances are also probably cause which need to be explored as well.
     
  9. #9
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    Agree the adrenals are weak, still working on getting that addressed.
    Tried addressing this along with synthetic T4+hci, but the T4 trashed me. Stopped the T4 and switched to Thyroid-S, and dropped the hci after a while. HCI didnt seem to have an effect. Now just on Thyroid-S and supplements for adrenals. Licorice root,B6,B5. Pass the flashlight test with ease. Saliva tests show normal coritsol in the moring then barely normal afternoon, then low and low late day and night.

    Ferritin levels are good.

    I took my pill in the afternoon the previous day, and got the blood draw around 9am the next morning.
    I usually take my pill at night so most of the thyroid hormone is available during the cortisol spike. I feel best taking it at night, but switched to the afternoon just for the blood test.

    I think my adrendals are just strong enough to handle the thyroid, because raising and lowering my thyroid hormone as a measurable effect which I can correlate to my body temps and how I feel. I dont think thyroid dosing would do much at all if my adrenals were really trashed. It would make me feel worse instead of better.

    But im still focusing on my adrenals, but my current question is on my thyroid numbers I posted.

    I just dont think I should lower. Would you go lower on thyroid hormone with these numbers?????

    I feel trashed on my recovery days. Hard to function. Cant exercise more than 3X a week, thats my max. So tired during afternoons. I have morning and night energy only. 12 to 6pm pm i useless.
    My T levels are 700 on a 300-800 scale with injections at 70mg a week. Split the dose into two shots a week.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  10. #10
    Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Is the TSH correct? Is it 0.068 or 0.68?
     
  11. #11
    hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Active Member

    If a person is over converter that means that the adrenals are really healing. I see this patten in alot of people on HC and this is a sign that the adrenals that where weak now are strong. Remmeber when using thyroid after 5-6 weeks ones adrenals could crash to the the excessive stress of the t3 on them. I see people with strong adrenals then treating thyroid they crash because they are pumping out to compensate for low thyroid,. When thyroid is giving they are like. OK I do not need to work as work and then they will return to true base line reading.
    Once on thyroid TSH needs not tbe even be taken and is a waste of time. if its suppressed after first dose same meds then does not need to be tested again
     
  12. #12
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    Yes its correct, its 0.068 not 0.68


     
  13. #13
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    So you suspect my adrenals are doing better now?
    And basically agree that TSH is pretty worthless at this point?

    With a mid-range t3, and a VERY VERY LOW TSH 0.068 would you keep my current dose?
    Seems like I should be aiming for a T3 in the upper 1/3 of the range, so I should NOT go lower on my thyroid dose. Agree?

    I need to make a good case before I call my doc back and agree on a new lower dose.

    My late afternoon fatigue is too bad for me to be convinced my adrenals are anywhere where they should be, but they are functioning enough to handle thyroid hormone. Ive been on thyroid-S for many months now with no crashes.

    T4 alone, which was the first thing my doc put me on, crashed me in just 3 days HARD. After 2 weeks I still felt like hell, and stopped it. Switched to Thyroid-S and was fine.

    Also.... when I started T at 100mg a week, it put my T levels at 1250 on 300-800 scale. I felt a lot better in this range with no afternoon fatigue and actually felt energy again for the first time in 10 years. At T level 700 I cant make it through the afternoon. So this makes me think that the above scale T levels of 1250 were compensating for my poor adrenal function. What do you think? My doc will not allow me to stay at 1250. He is fine with 700 though. At 1250 I had zero side effects. Not even a touch of acne or anything and blood pressure was fine.



     
  14. #14
    Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Do you have the basic chemistry, more specifically Potassium?
     
  15. #15
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    These are many months old, before I started my thyroid therapy and T therapy. I was feeling really bad when I took these tests. Could barely exercise once per week.
    Have not had a potassium check since then.

    Potassium: 4.1 range:3.5-5.3
    Sodium: 142 range:135-145
    Chloride 106 range:96-112
    CO2 25 range:19-32
    Glucose: 95 range:70-99
    BUN 18 range:6-23
    Creatine: 1.11 range:0.40-1.5
    Bilirubin 0.5 range: 0.3-1.2
    Alkaline Phosphates: 73 range: 39-117
    AST/SGOT 17 range: 0-37
    AST/SGPT: 14 range:0-53
    Total protein: 7.7 range: 6.0-8.3
    Albumin: 5.1 range: 3.5-5.2
    Calcium: 9.6 range:8.4-10.5
    Vitamin D: 54 range:30-89
    Iron: 83 range:42-1656
    Vitamin B12: 412 range:211-911

    TSH: 3.414 range: 0.350 - 5.5
    Free T4: 1.21 range:0.89-1.80

    Total T: 275 range:350-890
    Estradiol: 22pg/ml
     
  16. #16
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    Typo on my Iron

    Iron: 83 range:42-165
     
  17. #17
    Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    I was more interested in the basic chemistry while on thyroid. In any case, I am not a "follower" or "pumper" for adrenal fatigue, which is a bizarre and snake-oil treatment. In my opinion, you are heading down a dangerous path with the thyroid. The use of rT3 is nonsense, but others will tell you different. I have challenged all to support their opinions, but none come forth with any evidence except anecdotes.

    The TSH level along with T4 and t3 are important in monitoring therapy. To recommend that the use of TSH is worthless is tantamount to voodoo medicine. I doubt your doctor allows the thyroid dose to continue, but if he does I am very concerned that he does so at your request. He is the caretaker, not you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  18. #18
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    Thyrotoxic periodic paralysis?

    I dont have a single symptom of hyperthyroidism, but I do have symptoms of hypo.
    Now I see why you were asking about my potassium levels.
    Ill have to get re-checked and see if they are out of whack.

    But what if they are fine? And my t3 and T4 show no signs of hyperthyroidism and I have no symptoms? Does TSH alone dictate I should lower my dose? There doesnt seem to be a consensus on this. Doctors who specialize in this seem to differ wildly on TSH.

    Ive seen too many cases of people who feel like crap when their TSH is forced into range, but feel great when its very close to ZERO with no signs of hyperthyroidism.

    My heart rate is not elevated. My blood pressure is not elevated, its a little low. I currently run cold. (I was on a higher dosage earlier). I feel slightly hypo. Ill feel worse if I lower my dosage, I guarantee it, ive been there already. Ive already gone through the whole range of dosages and tracked how I feel in a spreadsheet. Going strictly by feel, 90mg would be perfect. 60 mg is a little low (my current dosage).

    My avg wake up temp averages 97.4.
    98.2 avg at 9am
    98.36 avg 12pm
    98.44 avg 3pm

    Does this sound like hyperthyroidism?

    Before I started my treatment I was around 96.0!

    Is feeling like shit with a TSH of 1.0-2.0 a good idea?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  19. #19
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    Clarification: 96.0 was my wake up temp, before starting treatment.

    What do you consider a minimum healthy TSH value?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  20. #20
    newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    *bump*
     

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