Help Please Thanks

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by AverageSuperman, May 9, 2009.

  1. AverageSuperman

    AverageSuperman Junior Member

    Sup gang, this site and forum is phenomenal. Just from reading a load of everyones experiences I have been able learn so much about my on going situation... I live in SO CAL and I am 22yrs old male I have primary or secondary hypogonadism. I recently as of 3 days ago have come off of AGEL 7.5G and 10G for a short period of time cold turkey like an idiot yes i uped my dose ran out of gel and doctor is on leave...I apologize the post is so long. If anyone could immediately respong that would be great. I am a newbie on this forum so go easy on me I have some extreme brain fog now w/ no sex drive and cialis didnt even work yesterday... Here is the most updated info:

    Alright Fellas, So I apologize for the grammatical errors but this experience has been really stressful and time consuming... Most recently, I was given androgel 5g with no AI after my labs from back in November december and Febuary 09 showed a decline in TOTAL TEST from (460 > 340 > 240). What is interesting is I have test dating back to 06 where my prolactin was 39 ( 5-18) and my ESTRADIOL was 44 ( 8- 40) and my test was 560! funny thing it was higher with higher estrogen and prolactin gets me? haha BTW Im turing 23 this month!


    My ESTROGEN and PROLACTIN has always been HIGH normal... After doing cabergoline with my original endo for some time and succesfully lowering my so called prolactinoma to normal ranges a year has went by without being on Cabergoline and the prolactin has tappered down to normal ranges... but the E2 has still been in the 39-45 range ( 15-50). I was shoveled ANDRGOGEL 5g with no ai by my new doc and told to return in 3 months... I decided to take the script and situation to my old doctor who i no showed a few times... He issued me a script for 1mg arimidex daily, which thanks to ksman I learned how to find my own sweet spot... ( the way i did that was by snapping my fingers and journaling my daily erections) So my original doctor said I should pick one endo and not bounce around and if i was going to come back to the clinic then he wanted me to do a full panel before starting it to have an even more accurate point and to take a $4,000 sleep apnea test which came out with mild sleep apnea so i have to purchase a mask now and supposely through very small medical literature it is associated with Low T. So i did! I also took a daily journal if anyone has questions about the whole experience. The Test read as :

    3-23-09 ( the day before starting androgel,yes before)
    Estrogen 31 (8-45)
    Testoterone Free and Total 546 ( 250-1100) was 240 2 months prior?
    Free TEST % 2.91 H ref range ( 1.5- 2.2) How can this be so high?
    FSH 3.7 ( 1.6-8.0)
    LH 6.5 (1.5-9.3)
    Prolactin 12.3 ( 2-18)
    IGF-I 194 (126-382)
    T4,Free 1.2 (.8-1.8)
    TSH 3rd Generation 2.56 ( .40-4.50)

    One month on andrgoel 7.5G and 10g for the last week: he only tested for a few things
    4-27-09
    TEST FREE 140.2 ( 35-155)
    TEST TOTAL 600 ( 250-1100)
    ESTRADIOL 16 ( 13-54)

    So looking at the test,
    I can see that E2 sucessfully went down and yes at one point when i was taking .5 arimidex E3d i was geting some gyno and lots of water bloat hot flashes too so i uped it to .5 ED and felt hella good I also raised my dose of androgel from 5g to 7.5g in 3 days then after three weeks raied it to 10g for the last week...
    FREE TEST went down? and TOTAL T went up 50? THE THING THAT IS KINDA INTERESTING IS THE ENDO DID NOT TELL ME TO TAKE THE TEST WITHIN 4-6 HOURS OF APPLICATION. I ENDED UP TAKING THE BLOOD TEST 16 HOURS AFTER APPLYING ALMOST A WHOLE DAY WENT BY AND IT WAS STILL 600!!! SO DO YOU GUYS THINK WE COULD ASSUME THAT WITHIN 4-6 HOURS THE TOTAL T WAS ACTUALLY HIGHER THEN 600 say maybe 800-900?? I HEARD IT TAPERS DOWN JUST LIKE OUR NATURAL PRODUCTION DOES THROUGHTOU THE DAY????

    MY SMALL EXPERIENCE:

    The whole month I really didnt feel too much different but the last week I started geting some real good erections and I did get stronger and less passive, moody, watery until uped AI, btw I am a TRAINER and I pay great attention and record any kind of changed date... I feel like i did notice when the agel tappered down towards the next day application I feel that it took 3-4weeks just to feel decent. There was alot of brain fog towards teh beging and I was out trying to find the sweet spot of AI and TRT together... I started feeling best after raising my AI to .5 every day and doing 7.5-10 gs agel daily. My daily application finally got on a consistent schedule which I believe helped with the feeling I had as well as the surgical glove used to adminster the gel. Rub to spread then let dry from wet is the correct directions i believe. I was given the scrit origially for 5g androgel with no AI by the get out of my office in 1 min doctor(new) and i raised my dosages to 7.5 which ran out in 2 weeks.Luckily Insurance covered me and I was able to get a refill for the following 2 weeks. THe new doctor felt that my pretreatment test was good enough to get off androgel for now... He did not say to not take the arimidex. I believe that this increase in T might have arose from the arimidex effects itself IM not sure? He does not know why I was tested for total t 240 in feb then in 2 months raised to 546... Said it could be a life style change? So I am off the AGEL and I FEEL LIKE SHIT lol DUDE I MEAN I FEEL LIKE SHIT. I have no will to workout, I have bad brain fog and confusion, my Madden skillz suck asss now lol.... I have NO LIBIDO and of course I bet its cuz my HPTA isnt functioning as it should...or KSMAN that my E2 is wiped out because the AGEL isnt eleveating my levels so E2 drops... THE DOCTOR SAID NO pct OR ANYTHING IS NECESSARY THAT WITHIN A MONTH I SHOULD GO BACK TO BEING NORMAL... WELL I CANT WAIT A MONTH GUYS... I HAVE DONE MY RESEARCH... SPOKE TO MODERATORS... CALLED PHARMASIST... Based off my blood work how should I handle this problem?
    1) take hcg for a month > Then clomid 15 days > nolva 15 days
    2) since this is like doing a mild small cycle should i just take CLOMID for month?
    3) Since i still havce AI i should I tapper the dose to .5 e3d and adjust until sweet spot is reached?
    4) Should I wait til the 14th of MAy when insurance kicks back in Taking androgel 7.5G and schedule an apt with the original doc who threw it at me...
    5) Should I stay on Ai, Schedule an apt with doc, demand for protocol to come off AGEL and demand HCG?
    6.Being that my TOTAL T levels were 600 15 hours after application, should I assume that within 4-8 hours I was at really HIGH NORMAL LEVELS
     
  2. xray9

    xray9 Junior Member

    It's your call bro but I'd suggest getting back on the androgel 5 g / day, start hcg 500 mg 2/week, and continue arimidex but at .5 mg 2/week. Then after about a month when your testes have returned to normal size and functioning, quit the Androgel and AI. Continue HCG for two weeks followed by clomid for two weeks. Then take nothing for three months and recheck prolactin, E2, Total and free T, and LH/FSH.

    Depending on how you check out then you can decide to:

    1) Manage without meds
    2) Do TRT / HRT with Androgel and ancillaries for the rest of your life
    3) Try to manipulate T levels with ancillaries alone like HCG / Clomid / AI
    4) Cycle AAS followed by pct and breaks in between

    Take this advice with a grain of salt as I"m not a doctor. One thing I have learned through personal experience though is that proper HRT isn't just using Androgel alone (which is what my PCP initially thought). Once you affect one hormone it affects a host of others and you get into a balancing act. Something not to be taken lightly.
     
  3. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    I would like to point out that your DHT levels will probably be a lot higher on gels and creams as to compared to injections. Yes you will probably need the adex try at dose you suggested, note the medication half life as it applies. Point is that E2 is the natural counter for DHT. They do nutralize the effects of each other to a strong degree. Also pay attention to where you apply it. For examply by placing the gel on your cock, balls, and undercarriage, your are encouraging a very high DHT level due to the nature of that area. So if you move to a shoulder, you will come up with less DHT and needs less Adex. Your T dose also plays in to what levels you want E2 to be. I saw no SHBG in your labs. I am sure it is low probably around 12 considering your Free T ratio. More Free T = More E2. Sounds like you are on the right track and have a doc with a good set of nuts on him if he is willing to put hcg in play. HCG will increase test and E2 as well. No answers here, just some thoughts..
     
  4. AverageSuperman

    AverageSuperman Junior Member

    Thanks guys
    I think the hcg for a month then clomid and AI the whole time is something i can get my hands on...I am calling the doctor tomorrow to relay him the message directly that I am out of agel and have been off it and arimidex for 3 days and I feel like poop....I will be asking him what the protocol is for coming off agel dead turkey and maybe he will be able to issue me the HCG AND CLOMID in script... I
    Oh btw...
    Yeah I sent an email to that All Things Male - Center for Men's Health doctor to see if he accepts ppo insurance
    I really need to find a specialist in SO CAL that specializes in HRT and hormones so i can make the right decision on what to do...
    And just to put this out there but my goal is to stay in 700-800 ranges...
     
  5. AverageSuperman

    AverageSuperman Junior Member

    A year ago my SHBG was 7 very low on the ref range... the last year he has not tested for it... thanks
     
  6. AverageSuperman

    AverageSuperman Junior Member

    SWALE,
    I am writing you in regards to see if you would spend a thought or two on my thread... II see you do not recieve Private Messages, i could really use your immediate feedback. You seem quite remarkable on here. Any feedback Swale would be great.
    Thanks
     
  7. i know of a dr that excepts PPO but hes way on the other side of the coast. IMO i would look into dr mariano that is practically right in your back yard.
    It also be a factor other then what is related to what you suspect as your thyroid. I have ran into people that have been to every dr in the field with no resolution because it was not thyroid in the first place. A guy with unresolved issues for 6 years on TRT is finally starting to have resolution to his long neglected issues. Many Dr's are strong in some areas, but do not look deeper to see what really others it may be. To many Dr's are chasing T when it is low when they examine other areas younger guys <28-30 will avoid TRT as I have proved successfully several times over.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2009
  8. AverageSuperman

    AverageSuperman Junior Member

    Thanks man. Ill look him up.
     
  9. Dr mariano would be your most logical choice here even thought i help run a hormone clinic, but its on the east coast.