Help with testicular atrophy

Discussion in 'Steroid Post Cycle Therapy and ASIH Treatment' started by Gambale, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. Gambale

    Gambale Junior Member

    Hi everyone I followed a cycle with Proviron for 8 weeks 50 mg a day and I finished it about 6 months ago. I didn't follow any pct because I listened to a friend who told me that Proviron doesn't need PCT to follow. I'm 19 years old.
    The week after the cycle my libido and energy were down and my testicles that already before the cycle were not very large, a bit shrunken.
    In the meantime I've recovered my libido and my energy and my testosterone levels seem to me to have returned almost as before, only one thing has not fixed: the size of my testicles, which have remained almost the same as the week after the cycle.
    Now I've bought nolvadex, hcg and a natural T booster but I haven't taken anything yet.
    Please, does anyone know what I could do to correct this testicular atrophy?
    I was thinking about using HCG for a few weeks followed by Nolvadex, some ideas?
     
  2. We have all made mistakes in life..I won’t chew you out, but I hope you have learned your lesson. Next time do your own research and if you still have questions then post them here.

    I think hcg is going to be your main recourse.
    Something like 250IU 2x a week. That should get the size back. I would run nolva simultaneously.

    Don’t wast your time with “natural” test booster. Good luck.
     
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  3. Gambale

    Gambale Junior Member

    I have a current testicular volume of 11 ml. I was thinking about 500IU 2x a week but for how many weeks? Since HCG is suppressive for LH anyway I was thinking of running nolvadex AFTER the HCG cycle but also here, how many weeks do you recommend me?
    Thank you.
     
  4. Zyzż_

    Zyzż_ Member

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  5. Did you have your volume formally tested or did you use a calculator? I found that the normal range was 12.5 –> 19ml. So your not that low then.

    I would start at 500 a week for a couple weeks at least and then you can bump it up to 500 twice a week.

    I think there is not a concrete study on how hcg affects LH. Some studies say it hinders it and others I have read says hcg mimics LH. While studies on animals are a guide when it comes to human trials things become different for some reason. That’s said I honestly can not address the matter whether to use nolva during or after.

    Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.
     
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  6. Gambale

    Gambale Junior Member

    I had gone to the andrologist to calculate the volume. so I follow HCG at 500IU or 250IU x2 per week but for how many weeks? 4 weeks is okay? I know that HCG mimics LH and therefore when you take HCG your endogenous LH is suppressed, so I would take nolvadex immediately after HCG to reactivate endogenous LH.
    Any opinion is appreciated. Thank you.
     
  7. JokerTime94

    JokerTime94 Member

    The dr. Skully protocol I believe has hcg 1500iu eod for 16 days. The hcg suppresses your own LH that is true. But hcg is supposed to make your balls function again and reverse the athropie. So your balls can react to the lh/fsh from your body. So after the hcg you start your normal pct. So for optimal results you should do both following one another.
     
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  8. master.on

    master.on Member

    Several important points below,

    1 I don't think Proviron did shut you down

    2 If I read your post right, you don't know if you have low T for sure, you don't have bloodwork, right?

    3 Get bloodwork
    Total Testosterone, Estradiol, LH, FSH

    4 nolva may cause nasty vision side effects, sometimes taking months or years to fully reverse.
    Hence don't use Nolva (as pct or T booster, it's ok to use it as Dbol antiestrogen)

    5 HCG may increase estrogen above normal = gyno.
    Hence don't use any HCG without bloodwork.

    6 Using tiny dose letrozole may be the safest way to increase T long-term
    1/4 of a Letro tab a week is a nice starting point
    dose is low enough so it's unlikely to crash estrogen
    yet high enough to rise T, claim backed with studies.

    CLINICAL STUDIES
    Letrozole once a week normalizes serum testosterone in obesity-related male hypogonadism
    Sandra Loves1, Janneke Ruinemans-Koerts2 and Hans de Boer1

    Departments of Internal Medicine Clinical Chemistry, Ziekenhuis Rijnstate, Wagnerlaan 55, 800 TA Arnhem, The Netherlands

    Abstract
    Objective Isolated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH) is frequently observed in severely obese men, probably as a result of increased estradiol (E2) production and E2-mediated negative feedback on pituitary LH secretion. Aromatase inhibitors can reverse this process. This study evaluates whether letrozole once a week can normalize serum testosterone in severely obese men and maintain its long term effect.

    Design Open, uncontrolled 6-month pilot study in 12 severely obese men (body mass index>35.0 kg/m2) with obesity-related IHH and free testosterone levels <225 pmol/l, treated with 2.5 mg letrozole once a week for 6 months.

    Results Six weeks of treatment reduced total E2 from 123±11 to 58±7 pmol/l (P<0.001, mean±S.E.M.), and increased serum LH from 4.4±0.6 to 11.1±1.5 U/l (P<0.001). Total testosterone rose from 5.9±0.5 to 19.6±1.4 nmol/l (P<0.001), and free testosterone from 163±13 to 604±50 pmol/l (P<0.001). Total testosterone rose to within the normal range in all subjects, whereas free testosterone rose to supraphysiological levels in 7 out of 12 men. The testosterone and E2 levels were stable throughout the week and during the 6-month treatment period.

    Conclusion Letrozole 2.5 mg once a week produced a sustained normalization of serum total testosterone in obese men with IHH. However, free testosterone frequently rose to supraphysiological levels. Therefore, a starting dose <2.5 mg once a week is recommended.

    Letrozole once a week normalizes serum testosterone in obesity-related male hypogonadism
     
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  9. Gambale

    Gambale Junior Member

    I have blood tests of 2 months ago, T total 510 ng/dl, T free 37.8 pg/ml, LH 4.5, FSH 2.1. I don't have E2.
    Also I have a BF of 16-17 %, I have no minimum Gyno. I go for 19 but I'm still 18 years old and I have little beard and no hairs on my chest or belly, the voice is not very low but in general I'm fine and my libido too. The only thing is that the testicles and my ejaculate were not very great but after this cycle they got worse. I would very much like to correct it.
     
  10. Gambale

    Gambale Junior Member

    I agree with you on starting a normal PCT after HCG but 1500iu EOD seem too many to me, the Proviron cycle had not shut down but only suppressed and also 6 months have passed since the cycle. I was thinking about lower doses but I'm not experienced and I don't want to do any more problems by making wrong doses of HCG.
    Thank you.
     
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  11. JokerTime94

    JokerTime94 Member

    Well the problem is that 6 months have passed so your testicals are probably not responding to the signals (lh/fsh) from your brain. Mostly that is to the athropie being too strong. So that's why you have to "restart" your testies with a higher dosage.

    Also I agree with the people above you need bloodwork before and after so you see if it did anything to begin with and also to see where the problem is.

    Check your
    Testo (complete and free)
    Estrogen
    Lh
    Fsh
    Shgb

    Test should be low.
    If estrogen is high take a mild ai (exemestane) while your doing hcg and a little after during your pct.
    If lh/fsh are abnormally high that means your testies are not responding to the signal.
    Lh/fsh low there is no signal from the brain (that doesn't mean your testies will respond if you just run Pct, I would still recommend hcg to reverse the athropie)
    Shgb can lower your free test bc it binds to testosterone. Therefore you feel bad.

    Get bloodwork at least 3 times.
    1x before
    1x right after Pct
    1x 3-6 months later to see if the numbers stay about the same so you know if the pct has done its job.
     
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  12. Gambale

    Gambale Junior Member

    Ok, I'll take blood tests. Now I only have exams from 2 months ago that say
    LH 4.5 and
    FSH 2.1
    T 510 ng/ml. I remember I am 18/19 years old.
    However to correct the atrophy I was thinking of running HCG for a week or 10 days at 500iu EOD and then using nolvadex for 2 weeks. Or do you recommend other dosages and times? Is Nolvadex okay after HCG or should I take it during HCG?
    Thank you very much
     
  13. JokerTime94

    JokerTime94 Member

    I would recommend the dr.skulky protocol. Bc it has proven to work.

    That would be 1500iu eod for 16 Days.
    Then pct with clomid and tamoxifen.

    Clomid week 1 100mg ed (50/50 split)
    Week 2 50mg (25/25) ed
    Week 3 (as week 2) ed
    Week 4 25mg (12.5mg split) ed
    Week 5 12.5mg ed
    Tamoxifen
    Week 1 40mg (20/20 split)
    Week 3-4 20mg
    Week 5 10mg

    If you run lower dosages then it might work might not. Your choice
    Do some research of your own about the protocols before using them!!
     
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  14. G2Ready

    G2Ready Member

    If your labs are good— stop looking at your nuts
     
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  15. Pretty sure his balls are functional since his t is in range. Are you sure the atrophy isn’t in your head since you value the appearance of ball size? If they work why care about the size? Also I’d listen to everyone re the t boosters cause a lot of them can actually lower it from what I’ve heard. Just out of curiosity what was the purpose of running proviron solo for 6 months, was it to get more facial/body hair growth or libido?

    I’ve read they use proviron to help men with fertility so I wouldn’t think it would shut someone down but I could be wrong on that. Man I wish I had 0 body hair and minimal facial hair, would save so much time and pain shaving everywhere lol, When I was 13-14 I used to wish I had thick facial hair, man I wish I didn’t now and testosterone has made it worse lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
  16. I call BS @Gambale.. We need to see a pic of before and after that "small" testicles. Also, don't forget the skin-fold measurements and weight of each testicles (pre and post ejaculation)..

    It's all in the name of science and proper documentation.. So all future newbie under 22yrs-- who goes into a cycle without proper knowledge will learn NOT to make the same mistake!
     
  17. Jstone2

    Jstone2 Member

    1 you dont think you just post bullshit studies to try and support some rubbish you posted.

    2 you must not have read his post at all, he is.trying to reverse testicular atrophy. Clearly in his post he states libido is back and he feels his test levels are as well.

    3 bloodwork isn't going to say anything about testicular atrophy.

    4 nolva may cause vision sides, but it's ok to use as an anti estrogen for dbol. Nolva isn't an anti estrogen at all. Does dbol protect from the visual impact nolva can have? Nolva is going to be far better than letro.

    5 hcg isn't going to raise his e2 that much, more than likely wont be noticed, definitely not going to induce gyno. If it did the nolva he starts after will take care of it. Very rarely will hcg raise e2 even at higher doses, a few outliers will experience a significant rise in estrogen. When was the last time you saw a case of gyno related to hcg use. I have gone through 15000 I in less than 3 weeks with no issues, and I'm very prone to gyno.

    6 your letro recommendation is based on a study of hypogonadism induced by obesity. There is a reason it works for obese men, it's due to the bodyfat. Bodyfat causes higher e2 levels, when your prevent testosterone from being converted to estrogen of course you will see a rise in testosterone levels. You basically posted the first study you found that you thought supported your retarded ideas. If this is so effective in males who are not obese why isn't it a part of power pct, or any professionally recognized pct protocol.

    7 your posts are full of bullshit you dig up on google and are based on zero practical experience, or anecdotal evidence you have witnessed. I can guarantee the hcg/nolva or hcg alone would be far more beneficial than a 1/4 tab of letro per week.
     
  18. Just wanna reiterate this, who the fuck cares about ball size as long as they’re functioning, at least with smaller balls it’ll make your small dick look big, your average dick look huge and your huge dick look massive. Would you rather have big balls and a small dick?
     
  19. Moxie

    Moxie Junior Member

    Try d-aspartic acid