HGH gyno

Discussion in 'Human Growth Hormone and Peptides' started by bob hughes, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    "Sensitive nips" and a variety of other nipple changes PED runners complain about must not be confused with GCM.

    What imaging studies have you had to confirm GCM?

    I ask bc based on existing evidence GCM in "younger ADULTS" is RARE yet
    has a frequency approximating 4-5% in
    children and "the elderly".

    Finally there's NO EVIDENCE to support the notion prolactin is responsible for
    GCM in GH patients.

    The data to date suggests changes in IGF are most likely responsible.

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  2. Rick Kane

    Rick Kane Member

    No imaging or scans done.
    In 2001 I ran a test only cycle 250/week but added a product called Drive which has Bold Undec and Methandriol Dipropionate. Being the impatient dolt that I am I started the cycle with no AI or ancillaries at all. When I finally got a hold of some it was too late. I ended up with a small lump under each nipple.
    They got smaller over time but now always fill up with fluid if I use test or gh.
    When it flares, it starts with nips get sensitive, then they fill with fluid and become large enough to be visible under the skin.

    Right now I'm clean and haven't used anything in 6 months. No signs whatsoever of gyno. When I do use test or gh I stick to low-ish doses, 100mg tes, 20mg var, 2ius gh and use aromasin.

    Also, I turn 47 in Jan. Don't know if that matters.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  3. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    [QUOTE="Rick Kane, post: 2040547, member: 70680"

    No imaging or scans done.

    .[/QUOTE]

    I REALLY appreciate you being
    honest!

    However unlike yourself the OVERWHELMING majority of Meso members haven't decades of experience or the fund of knowledge required to accurately diagnose GCM.

    It's for this reason those newcomers who "believe" they have GCM require a formal evaluation by a HCP, bc the alternative is little more than another opinion laden "experiment".

    JIM
     
    Rick Kane likes this.
  4. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    Here's the follow up citation. Note, many of the adverse effects of HGH supplementation do seem to correlate with changes in IGF levels.

    Aslo note in this 1993 study the authors specifically mention the difficulty in comparing "IGF levels" from one assay to another ----- and this issue continues to be problematic to this day IME

    To that end maintenance of IGF levels within an assays NORMAL RANGES remains the most reliable means of limiting the adverse effects of GH "therapy"

    JIM
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
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  5. bob hughes

    bob hughes Member AnabolicLab.com Supporter

    Interesting, thanks
     
  6. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    But it's gotta be a "prolactin effect" Jim!

    IDK but some "bro scientists" (a term I reserve for those on other PED forums whom are more "scientifically inclined" and as such are often found referencing the literature as evidence for their OWN opinions) seem to have an infatuation with Prolcatin bc it's been cited as the culprit for GCM , and a few other PED related adverse effects, regardless of the involved compound.

    To that end two "bros" on other forums referenced this article as evidence prolactin was the more likely cause of HGH mediated GCM.

    And their source, is little more than a spin effort to see things their way.

    I'm specifically referring to the
    articles cited by Blackman and Carlson at the bottom of page 423, bc the former is an elderly TRH study, while the latter merely provides reference range prolactin, TT and E-2 values in the elderly.

    So let's be clear, to date only ONE hormone has been clearly associated with GCM, ESTROGEN, anything else is dubious at best!

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  7. amar7

    amar7 Member

    Dr. Jim HGH is known to raise prolactin, which also is known to cause lactation amongst other things like gyno, it caused it for me and reducing prolactin worked very well for me, so all your theory you can keep for your self, I prefer real results that show.
     
  8. Just Fish

    Just Fish Member AnabolicLab.com Supporter

    Post the bloodwork showing raised prolactin from hgh
     
  9. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    Assuming you're referring to MALES

    1) post the evidence or link

    2) baloney

    3) I often wonder how some concoct such absolute NONSENSE

    Nonetheless if you have anything more than the experience of one to support your OPINION, and would like share SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE I'd love to see it,

    However for starters I'd also suggest you invedtigate how those conditions you so flippantly use such as lactation, GCM, are differentiated, defined and diagnosed.

    And while you're at it take a gander at the term we in the medical field refer to as "galactorrhe".

    As for scientific literature to support your bro-science laden dogma, I KNOW that WONT HAPPEN!
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
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  10. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    As for the others whom want to know the the facts, from an evidence based perspective, I'll refer you to the roughly 121 page research review Humatrope submitted to the FDA in 2012 bc out of some 200 patients (by my count) in which PRL was assayed,no PRL cause and effect relationship was detected.

    That's NOT to suggest GCM did not occur, bc it did with a frequency approximating 4-5%
    in CHILDREN.

    Moreover the GCM resolved spontaneously and in spite of continued therapy.

    While some researchers opined changing IGF levels may have had some impact, they all referenced a low TT : E-2 ratio
    was the primary contributing factor in the development of GCM in pre-pubescent children.

    Jim
     
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  11. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Broscience Evidence Pyramid

    evidence-pyramid.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
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  12. amar7

    amar7 Member

    Your postings really don't lack any arrogance, even if you studied medicine, be aware, that what you don't know is a multiple of what you learned and think to know and understand. So for that a bit of humbleness and down to earthness wouldn't be bad.

    I for one am not a scientist, nor do I have the interest in studying to be one. I gather my information from studies, experts, anecdotes and trial and error to better my personal QoL and I KNOW it worked in MY CASE, I just wanted to share it to possibly help the next man.

    So you can throw around all of the studies you have to disprove my "bro science" I really don't give a damn. I know my gyno shrinkage is real and none of your arguments will make that untrue. Also I am not a university student of yours where I am obliged to scientifically prove to you anything (through double blind placebo controlled studies). I don't know how it workes scientifically, I just know it worked, and that's enough for ME

    It's really amazing, how sometimes the academic system turns out people who are not able to think outside the box anymore.

    An intelligent PhD of endocrinology once said, I quote "Nothing in medicine is absolute, except death" - so get off your high horse.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  13. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    And before someone "can think outside the box" ---- they need to understand what a box is or is not, and that's why those of your ilk find it impossible to participate
    in evidence based discussions.

    No evidence ------- NO SURPRISE.

    Adios