Insulin and creatine HCL = big as fuck fast!!!

Eman

Member
I thought creatine had to be first absorbed by the kidneys to be then put in the muscles? If so slin wouldnt have an effect? Right or wrong?

The kidneys are relevant with creatine but no matter how it's absorbed (intestines) the insulin plays a part in transporting the creatine from the blood stream into the muscle.

My original point in posting in this thread was that you don't need exogenous insulin to accomplish that. If you take just 5 grams of creatine the serum concentration of creatine in your body will go up about +6X what it was prior to supplementing, assuming you didn't just eat.

If you're already going to take insulin, then using creatine with it isn't a bad idea... But don't take insulin just because you think it'll make creatine more effective. (Not directed at you, trukk... Just a general statement because it seemed like that was the idea behind the thread)
 

Demondosage

Member
The kidneys are relevant with creatine but no matter how it's absorbed (intestines) the insulin plays a part in transporting the creatine from the blood stream into the muscle.

My original point in posting in this thread was that you don't need exogenous insulin to accomplish that. If you take just 5 grams of creatine the serum concentration of creatine in your body will go up about +6X what it was prior to supplementing, assuming you didn't just eat.

If you're already going to take insulin, then using creatine with it isn't a bad idea... But don't take insulin just because you think it'll make creatine more effective. (Not directed at you, trukk... Just a general statement because it seemed like that was the idea behind the thread)
Yes, agreed
 

Dr JIM

Member
I thought creatine had to be first absorbed by the kidneys to be then put in the muscles?

Absorbed by the KIDNEYS come again. Creatine like all other oral supplements are absorbed by the GI tract and excreted by the kidneys ---- the latter may become an issue (as in declining renal function) in those with underlying renal dysfunction which includes diabetics, yet especially type I diabetics.
 
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Dr JIM

Member
Oh and this is one of the better citations on the use of Creatine MONOHYDRATE in type II diabetics.
 

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Demondosage

Member
I can believe 5 grams of total gear especially for a guy that weighs 300+ lbs and i have stated that before. But like someone else mentioned in that thread i posted, if you need that much gear just to be competitive then you were never meant for this sport.
There is something Dan Duchaine spoke of before, it's when you introduce a certain level of hormones to your body and reaching a certain state, I can't remember what he called it. I had a professional powerlifter explain it to me years ago. He said that the few weeks leading into the meet is when he'd really ramp up. The morning of the meets he would do a ton of shit, mainly very high doses of orals, much more than anyone sane would even consider.

Yea, look I'm with you here, 10 grams a week is crazy and hard to believe. I don't think it's like it's upwards of that for an entire cycle though, it's what ppl are getting up to near meet time as it draws closer. These guys said it's insane what ppl are doing now. Even they were like "man, I used xyz at such and such amounts before, but nowadays it's gotten crazy." Quote on quote what they said to me was "up to 8-10 grams a week nowadays, much more than bodybuilders"

I can tell you that in the bodybuilding community it's not uncommon for certain athletes to hit 1,000mg eod of test, 300mg/day anadrol, I mean fuck we are talking what? 6 grams or something rt there alone almost? Now factor in the high levels of things like trenbolone, EQ, primo etc etc. When you really think about it , yea ppl can actually get THAT HIGH in grams per week.
 

colossus25

Member
There is something Dan Duchaine spoke of before, it's when you introduce a certain level of hormones to your body and reaching a certain state, I can't remember what he called it. I had a professional powerlifter explain it to me years ago. He said that the few weeks leading into the meet is when he'd really ramp up. The morning of the meets he would do a ton of shit, mainly very high doses of orals, much more than anyone sane would even consider.

Yea, look I'm with you here, 10 grams a week is crazy and hard to believe. I don't think it's like it's upwards of that for an entire cycle though, it's what ppl are getting up to near meet time as it draws closer. These guys said it's insane what ppl are doing now. Even they were like "man, I used xyz at such and such amounts before, but nowadays it's gotten crazy." Quote on quote what they said to me was "up to 8-10 grams a week nowadays, much more than bodybuilders"

I can tell you that in the bodybuilding community it's not uncommon for certain athletes to hit 1,000mg eod of test, 300mg/day anadrol, I mean fuck we are talking what? 6 grams or something rt there alone almost? Now factor in the high levels of things like trenbolone, EQ, primo etc etc. When you really think about it , yea ppl can actually get THAT HIGH in grams per week.
Im not trying to be a dick but simple human physiology is completely against you. I'm in the industry and i have competed and i have yet to meet anybody running anything near what you are claiming. Its already been explained on this thread and the other which you originally made that claim. People love to make outrages claims to justify why pros look the way they do but always fail to admit the massive role simple genetics play. The claim that olympia competitors are running grams of test leading up to the show is laughable when almost every prep coach i know of completely eliminates testosterone a couple weeks out to bring out the best condition possible.
 

wsw16

Member
Im not trying to be a dick but simple human physiology is completely against you. I'm in the industry and i have competed and i have yet to meet anybody running anything near what you are claiming. Its already been explained on this thread and the other which you originally made that claim. People love to make outrages claims to justify why pros look the way they do but always fail to admit the massive role simple genetics play. The claim that olympia competitors are running grams of test leading up to the show is laughable when almost every prep coach i know of completely eliminates testosterone a couple weeks out to bring out the best condition possible.
Exactly man, these pros are genetic freaks. The other thing people dismiss too esily is how long the big guys have been training for. They see someone and think it only took them a couple of years to get there when in reality most top pros have been training since they were 12-13 years old. You some photos of these guys at 15 and they were already more developed than the average gym rat in their mid 20s. Most top bodybuilders hit their peak around 30-35 sometimes even later meaning by that point they've been training for 15-20 years CONSISTENTLY never skipping a beat. You can claim these guys use 20iu of hgh a day and a tonne of aas and slin but that is definitely not the main reason they look the way they do
 

janoshik

Member
Absorbed by the KIDNEYS come again. Creatine like all other oral supplements are absorbed by the GI tract and excreted by the kidneys ---- the latter may become an issue (as in declining renal function) in those with underlying renal dysfunction which includes diabetics, yet especially type I diabetics.
For somebody who pretends to be a doctor you seem to have missed the slight difference between creatine and creatinine.

The latter may become an issue (as in declining renal function) in those with underlying renal dysfunction which includes diabetics, yet especially type I diabetics. Creatine really is not an issue with diabetic nephropathy .

Creatine, according to the study you have linked, is actually beneficial for diabetics - do you even read the studies you link?
 

Eman

Member
Creatine, according to the study you have linked, is actually beneficial for diabetics - do you even read the studies you link?

Did you read the whole thread or are you just looking at Jim's most recent posts so you can be a pain in the forum's ass again?

If you had read the thread, or even just the first page, you'd have seen Jim specify that creatine may be beneficial for diabetic patients. Why'd he say that? Because OP is diabetic.

Despite that, the effects of creatine on the kidneys are studied quite a bit because it's believed that it's possible it may not be healthy to supplement creatine with a compromised renal system.

For someone that values politeness so much, you're really a dick aren't you? Try practicing what you preach and maybe you'd earn some respect instead of being known as a scammer and a dick. Now go ahead and get bent out of shape about this post and prove my point.
 

janoshik

Member
Did you read the whole thread or are you just looking at Jim's most recent posts so you can be a pain in the forum's ass again?

If you had read the thread, or even just the first page, you'd have seen Jim specify that creatine may be beneficial for diabetic patients. Why'd he say that? Because OP is diabetic.

Despite that, the effects of creatine on the kidneys are studied quite a bit because it's believed that it's possible it may not be healthy to supplement creatine with a compromised renal system.

For someone that values politeness so much, you're really a dick aren't you? Try practicing what you preach and maybe you'd earn some respect instead of being known as a scammer and a dick. Now go ahead and get bent out of shape about this post and prove my point.
Not really - hard to get butthurt when you are all correct.

I just hate JIM with passion for being a massive lying faggot, you know - and I just gotta take it out somewhere.

But if I were you, I wouldn't worry about my respect.

First, I got it, and a lot more of it than anybody here.
But that's childish, like all talk about respect, which brings me to my second point - I don't need respect to point out facts and data.
 

Eman

Member
I just hate JIM with passion for being a massive lying faggot, you know - and I just gotta take it out somewhere.

Well, I've no doubt that the feeling is mutual.

As far as taking it out somewhere, what are you 13? Let's think back and ask ourselves if you didn't provoke people that have poor attitudes towards you. You were abrasive from day one on a board that dislikes that kind of attitude. Frankly, I thought you had an agenda from day one too and I'm not the only one. So why would that be? You have a poor attitude, you expect to be treated with respect but don't feel the need to reciprocate unless you feel like it and there are a lot of questionable issues surrounding your testing.

Now, I personally don't think everything that's said about you is true but it's hard to care when you "feel the need to let it out somewhere" especially when that somewhere is informative threads I'm following.

Try being less abrasive when you contribute and maybe you'll earn enough respect that members will want to listen to you, it's not hard to tell you want to contribute AND be heard. They'll have to make up there own mind whether you're a scammer or not based on your demeanor and the rest of the story laid out on the forum.
 

gr8whitetrukker

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
Nah not true. Well not entirely. Sure you have your John Meadows who has legitimately been training since he was 13 and finally won his pro card at 44.
But Kevin Levrone was a skinny ass natty before BB. Many pics of him around. He literally transforms from average joe to to Olympia stage ready in 1 yrs time or less. Reigning Mr. O Phil Heath only trained in BB 8 yrs before he won his first olympia. I think a very good portion of these genetic freaks are only generic freaks when their ON. Then i have also seen the reverse happen as well. Where a natural genetic freak isnt much when he is ON.
Exactly man, these pros are genetic freaks. The other thing people dismiss too esily is how long the big guys have been training for. They see someone and think it only took them a couple of years to get there when in reality most top pros have been training since they were 12-13 years old. You some photos of these guys at 15 and they were already more developed than the average gym rat in their mid 20s. Most top bodybuilders hit their peak around 30-35 sometimes even later meaning by that point they've been training for 15-20 years CONSISTENTLY never skipping a beat. You can claim these guys use 20iu of hgh a day and a tonne of aas and slin but that is definitely not the main reason they look the way they do
 
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wsw16

Member
Nah not true. Well not entirely. Sure you have your John Meadows who has legitimately been training since he was 13 and finally won his pro card at 44.
But Kevin Levrone was a skinny ass natty before BB. Many pics of him around. He literally transforms in to Olympia stage ready in 1 yrs time or less. Reigning Mr. O Phil Heath only trained in BB 8 yrs before he won his first olympia. I think a very good portion of these genetic freaks are only generic freaks when their ON. Then i have also seen the reverse happen as well. Where a natural genetic freak isnt much when he is ON.
Lol no he wasn't. There's photos of Levrone when he was 13-14 more developed than most 20 year olds. Kevin only trained for a few months a year preparing for contests and could put on more size than anyone that had been training for years. Kevin took more time off than anyone completely out of the gym. You really think he wouldn't have the same response to training and dieting naturally? cmon. Obviously on gear the response is more dramatic but he would still put any other natural to shame without gear. There's photos of Phil Heath already jacked and with great muscle development when he was playing basketball before ever lifting. Look at photos of Ronnie Coleman when he was young, Lee Priest etc. Their bodies have amazing response to drugs. But they're genetic freaks because they respond to training stimulus and nutrition BETTER than anyone else.
 

janoshik

Member
Let's think back and ask ourselves if you didn't provoke people that have poor attitudes towards you. You were abrasive from day one on a board that dislikes that kind of attitude.
Feel free to check out yourself what happened when I first came here.

Get your facts straight before you post something.


I wonder if you'll admit to being wrong or if this is another waste of time for me.

Frankly, I thought you had an agenda from day one too and I'm not the only one.
What agenda then, please?

Thank you.

So why would that be? You have a poor attitude, you expect to be treated with respect but don't feel the need to reciprocate unless you feel like it and there are a lot of questionable issues surrounding your testing.
I do reciprocate respect very well, imo.

What questionable issues? I'd love to hear it.
Now, I personally don't think everything that's said about you is true but it's hard to care when you "feel the need to let it out somewhere" especially when that somewhere is informative threads I'm following.
I love to share the knowledge as well.
Lot many other people shitting up threads with a lot worse stuff than I did here - do you write assays to them as well?

Try being less abrasive when you contribute and maybe you'll earn enough respect that members will want to listen to you, it's not hard to tell you want to contribute AND be heard. They'll have to make up there own mind whether you're a scammer or not based on your demeanor and the rest of the story laid out on the forum.
Trust me, I'm trying.

However you gotta admit it's really hard to contribute when there are massive c*nts over here who can't produce any useful content or argument themselves and all they do is bark like rabid dogs.

But for example I assume you assume you are being respectful with this post - and it appears so. However, it is deeply insulting to me, that you are parroting untruths without checking yourself (first part of this reply), so even though I really really try, it's hard for me to be perfectly polite to you as well.
 

wsw16

Member
He was pretty jacked...
View attachment 70841
You obviously don't know how to judge genetics properly. Look how capped his delts already are, look at the definition and vascularity on his arms, look at the height on his traps already, his adonis belt. That's what I mean about being developed I didn't say Kevin was jacked. It's about seeing the potential that someone has before they ever even touch a weight. He's obviously not going to be big. You think that's normal for a 12 year old?
And here you go, according to him he was 13 here...

kevin.jpg
 

gr8whitetrukker

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
You obviously don't know how to judge genetics properly. Look how capped his delts already are, look at the definition and vascularity on his arms, look at the height on his traps already. That's what I mean about being developed I didn't say Kevin was jacked. It's about seeing the potential that someone has before they ever even touch a weight. He's obviously not going to be big. You think that's normal for a 12 year old?
And here you go, according to him he was 13 here...

View attachment 70846
Im just simply pointing out its not so cut and dry. That was the Meadows example. An example of some one who in all honesty is probably pretty average that achieved tremendous results over quite literally 30+yrs trying to get his pro card.
Then you have the other examples of folks doing it in ridiculous short time periods. Drug protocols they may or may not have used is always speculation. But its not always so cut and dry as far as what some one can achieve
 

Eman

Member
Lot many other people shitting up threads with a lot worse stuff than I did here - do you write assays to them as we

Yes, sometimes I do. I don't do it all the time because I shit on threads too and don't want to be a hypocrite, usually I have a reason though.

But for example I assume you assume you are being respectful with this post - and it appears so. However, it is deeply insulting to me, that you are parroting untruths without checking yourself (first part of this reply), so even though I really really try, it's hard for me to be perfectly polite to you as well.

I don't know if respectful is the right term? It's not like you have any respect for me. I'm just being honest, nothing to be deeply insulted about. You could be the most honest guy on the forum but that's not how you're perceived, that was my point. I don't know who you are or if you're truthful or a con, it doesn't really matter to me either way to be honest.

Maybe you're correct and you didn't provoke anyone right away, I'm not about to go back through the testing threads to check, but it certainly didn't take you long to lose your temper. Once that happens on Meso it tends to be a downward spiral.

You can tell me to "check myself" if you want but that's actually my whole point to you. Keep your cool dude, your posts will be more valuable. :)
 

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