intermittent/unconventional hormone optimization experiment, need feedback

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by TheDogSoldier, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. TheDogSoldier

    TheDogSoldier Junior Member

    Hi everyone,
    I'm a little ways into a self-experiment, and I wanted to get some feedback.

    (Background)
    I am 46, pretty fit, lift, kettlebell, jiujitsu, no health problems.
    Many of my peers are on TRT, but I am holding out for the time being. I had never used any PED prior to this new experiment.
    A while back I asked *another forum* about short-cycle/ongoing androgen use (something like 2 weeks on, 2 off, repeat)... I was not wanting bulk, but rather all-around enhancement and "anti-aging". They talked me out of it , claiming it would be a roller-coaster, which made sense.

    (Fucked with SARMS, got suppressed, fucking with clomid now)
    Eventualy I succumbed to the temptation of SARMS, and did a cycle of Ostarine. But as before, I was talked out of short-cycling by some guys on yet another forum, who claimed it needed at least 4 weeks to start working, and that 8 weeks was a good length. I used 10mg ED. First 4 weeks I felt good and gained muscle, after that I started to feel shitty, and when I stopped (no pct, because I wanted to believe the "doesn't suppress you" hype) I had a few weeks of total hell.
    I got bloods at 4 weeks post-cycle, still feeling shit but a little better. Total T was 450ng/dL (300-890), SHBG was high at 64 nmol/L (17-56), and free T was borderline at 59 pg/mL (47-244). Pre cycle I had only tested total T: 600.
    I started clomid 6mg ED, which definitely helped, but morning woods disappeared after a week or two and libido dropped, so I took a week break, then another week on clomid, now off and that's where I stand now. Libido still down. Other than that, I feel mostly recovered, maybe all the way.

    (EN-clomiphene next)
    I like the idea of stimulating the HPTA with clomid, but do not like the sides I have experienced, which are widely attributed to the isomer zuclomiphene. I have ordered Indian pharma Enclomiphene, which should be here in a few days. I will start with that, aiming for 2 weeks at 12mg/day. I'm basing this off the phase II Androxal trial :
    Testosterone restoration using enclomiphene citrate in men with secondary hypogonadism: a pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic study
    ...particularly the LH dynamics shown on the following graph :
    Testosterone restoration using enclomiphene citrate in men with secondary hypogonadism: a pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic study ... where you can see that the 12mg group matched the 25mg group for the first 2 weeks and then dropped.

    (Then bridge Enclomiphene cycles with Anavar and Proviron)
    So if the enclomiphene 2-weekers give me a boost, I'll bridge them with 1 week of Proviron + 1 week Anavar. So the entire 4-week cycle will look like:

    Week 1: Proviron 25/night
    Week 2: Anavar 25/morning
    Week 3: Enclomiphene 12mg/night
    Week 4: Enclomiphene 12mg/night

    Why Proviron? Because clearly my body responds to fuckery by increasing SHBG, and as I come off the enclomiphene, I want to at least free up some T.
    Why Anavar? Because I do want some anabolic effects, and var is known to be fast-acting. Plus it's economical compared to Primo at least, which is the other compound I have considered for this week.
    Why so short? Because it's my style. I live and train *intermittently* already. I focus on hypertrophy for 2 weeks, then 1 week on conditioning, then 1 week on recovery/therapy/mobility. So I don't expect much from any given week of this plan, but rather something that gives me a good quality of life over time and allows me to keep up with my TRT'd friends!!!

    What do you think? I hope this is the right forum to find some open minds. Even if you don't like my plan at all, perhaps you can at least learn something along the way by sharing your thoughts and following my experiment.
    Thank you!
     
  2. Safety First

    Safety First Member

    Can you in just a few lines say what you're trying to do?
     
  3. TheDogSoldier

    TheDogSoldier Junior Member

    Get TRT-like effects without exogenous T and with as few sides as possible.
     
  4. Safety First

    Safety First Member

    Do you have something against taking 100-150MG IM of test c per week either doctor prescribed or through a UGL? Because there is nothing that will give you what that gives you.

    You can try whatever you like, but it won't be right in the long run and you will just mess yourself up.

    I'm gonna tell you right now that what you have listed as 4 week cycle is absolute garbage.
     
  5. TheDogSoldier

    TheDogSoldier Junior Member

    I want to keep my HPTA in good shape.
    So if I start pinning T then I will have to use a serm and maybe hcg anyways.
    So, if I can get results with a plan which is based around serm+nattyT, then my HPTA stays running and I feel good too. Doesn't that make sense?
    But I do hear you on T being irreplaceable... I am hoping that the serm keeps mine up enough to be a base for the prov and var.
     
  6. Safety First

    Safety First Member

    I think you'll actual get some shut down using Anavar like that. This question is a little out of my leauge so I'm gonna just sit back and watch what everyone else has to say.

    It's definitely an interesting way of doing things you have presented. Hope it works out for you. I would just go on trt though.

    Best of luck,
    Safety first
     
    TheDogSoldier likes this.
  7. TheDogSoldier

    TheDogSoldier Junior Member

    Thanks man!
    Perhaps others will chime in and help me guesstimate the risk involved... I mean, the doses are low, compounds relatively safe... if it doesn't work after a few months I can pct and hopefully go back. Worst case, I have to start TRT... which I gather isn't that bad...
     
  8. johntt44

    johntt44 Member

    I dont get it. Anavar is worse for you than test and it shuts your natural test production down. You dont even have low T so why?
     
  9. johntt44

    johntt44 Member

    TRT is safer than Anavar. "Isn't that bad."? If you run actual trt dosage test you might not even need an AI. So down to just one thing being put into your body. Where are you getting your info from? Ostarine is an unproven drug, test is not, and you ran that crap? Dont understand your lack of logic one bit. Out of ostarine, anavar, and trt dosage test which one would you think to be the safest and most effective. That's your answer. Seeing as your natural test was 600 you shouldn't be messing with any of them because ALL of them will shut down your natural production. By the way, try would be your best case. You already ran your worst case, ostarine. Anavar wont work for what you want either.
     
    TheDogSoldier likes this.
  10. Brandaddy

    Brandaddy Member

    I'm sorry, but the chance of you yielding any noticable gains from this beyond what you would see natty is pretty low. You will however unnecessarily spend your money on this. Personally I would opt out of using AAS unless you were going to run them 'the right way".
     
    TheDogSoldier likes this.
  11. rugerjitsu

    rugerjitsu Member

    My advice would be to quit fucking around and hop on TRT. I'm almost your age...I get it, but you're spinning your wheels.
     
    TheDogSoldier likes this.
  12. TheDogSoldier

    TheDogSoldier Junior Member

    Followup
    So I did 2 weeks of enclomiphene 12.5mg/day. Nuts seemed to like it, but otherwise I felt like shit. I really had high hopes for the stuff! Starting trt.
     
  13. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    I am highly doubtful for the Enclomiphene being real.
     
  14. TheDogSoldier

    TheDogSoldier Junior Member

    Is there anyone who can test it? It's been on the market for several years at least, Indian pharmacy. "Enclofert"