Kettlebell clean and press and Pavel's Ladders

Discussion in 'Training Forum' started by lanier1974, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. #1

    lanier1974 Member

    I've been doing these for years, and during winter when it's not climbing season and I don't have to do ungodly quantities of pull up training, I really enjoy a good shoulder cycle.

    But this year I crossed a plateau and can finally move real weight. Been doing double 25kg and finishing with 20kg. At 160lbs, slamming double 25kg (110lbs) up overhead from a dead hang, and then throwing them back into a dead hang, feels like I'm indestructible.

    Been doing Pavel Tsatsouline ladders; 1 rep, rest 30 sec, 2 rep, rest 30 sec, 3 rep, rest 30 sec, 4 rep, rest 30 sec, 5 rep, rest 30 sec. Stop. Rest 5 min. Repeat. Idea is to get as much total volume with a heavy weight as possible. Last rep of last rung must be strong. If shaky, drop back next ladder. May be 1,2,3,4 next time. Rest. Then another. Then 1,2,3.

    Feels amazing. Anyone done these?
  2. #2

    Stretch Member

    Kettlebell clean and press....yes.

  3. #3

    lanier1974 Member

    You should try ladders. I've found no better way to get high volume out of low-rep/heavy set workouts.

    I'm a really wiry thin guy, a born climber, and mass has never come easily to me (or at all sans AAS, and even with T, not much). But nothing has increased my strength more than ladders. Got me to doing well over a hundred pull-ups per workout without burnout. Moved me from a measly 16kg KB military presses to double 25kg C&P.

    As Pavel puts it: get a pump with a heavy weight. He details it in his "Beyond Bodybuilding" book, a great read full of strength advice from many in the sport, free of bro-science.
  4. #4

    Demondosage Member

    interesting, I've never messed with kettlebells much, I've always just done bodybuilding. Maybe I'l switch it up and try them, I'm getting bored lately
  5. #5

    lanier1974 Member

    Read that book I mentioned. Great info.

    Kettlebells, when done properly, apply cross-sport more freely than any training I've ever done. There is a reason Spetnaz, US Special Forces, firefighters, and SWAT trains with them.
  6. #6

    Stretch Member

    I've never been more sore than the first time I trained with kettlebells. And I was in damn good shape too. Shit is just a different type of workout.

    But you haelve to have someone experienced show you what to do, the movements are strange, to say the least.
  7. #7

    lanier1974 Member

    Stretch, EXACTLY! I'm a do it myself kinda guy and have taught myself (thru reading the wisdom of others) most of the disciplines I pursue.

    BUT, I got an RKC trained by Pavel to teach me the moves over a month class. You do NOT want to fuck around with kettlebells. The plyometric moves especially must be learned; swing, snatch, clean. The windmill and Turkish getup are two tension drills that can really screw you if uninstructed.

    The movements are very strange indeed. But incredibly applicable to real useable strength and power, both. Some moves are high tension, some are plyometric, and in many drills, both kinds are used in one rep (take the KB clean and press).

    No training I have ever done has made me better at something else..except KB! I ski, climb, and move faster, stronger, and better. Cross sport application. Some of the best fighters train only KB.

    The swing will scare the hell outta someone with lower back pain, and nothing will end that pain and strengthen the lower back chain faster. "My back hurts when I bend over. So ill take 25kg, swing it in the air, and bend over my body with the falling weight, then REVERSE the force at the bottom, while I'm bent over at my weakest point".

    Sounds suicidally counterintuitive, but that's exact what you do; train and do exactly what you can't. Pavel says lower back ligaments suffer when strained for long duration (seconds), which is why lower back stretches like touching your toes is so damaging. However, those same weak ligaments are like steel when hyper-loaded for very short bursts of time: the reversal of momentum of a huge KB at the bottom. Took my back from painful and spasmodic to bulletproof.

    And NOTHING has made my deadlift better than swings. Deads usually make me walk and climb slowly afterwards; they rob you of quickness in the posterior chain. Working in swings on days far enough away from deadlifts during the week keep that snap and fluidity in your posterior chain synergistically with the strength increases of deads.

    The KB military press especially creates the strongest shoulder joints I've experienced, and will HEAL a bad one. You have to fire the lat hard on the way up, and suck the shoulder into socket with the serratus anterior. My lats are more sore from a vertical clean and military press KB movement than from 100 pull-ups. And they are just antagonists! You actually must push your vertical body into the floor instead of driving the bell up.....and bam! It goes up to lock-out!

    The full range of motion afforded by the round shape lets you arc the humerus in a huge swing that increases delt activation and range of motion beyond what Arnold came up with in his "Arnold Press".

    Compounding that effectiveness is the fact that the bell puts the weight and center of gravity closer to your elbow than wrist; this GREATY reduces leverage at your shoulder joint, and thereby let's you lift significantly more weight in the same movement than you can with a dumbell because the delt, trap, and lat are maximally loaded instead of leveraging a relatively lighter weight against the long lever-arm from your wrist to shoulder.

    People look at KB and say, "I don't get it. So what. Different shaped dumbbell". The leverage and motion advantages gained by the configuration are huge and one should not be deceived by the seemingly simplistic design.

    Try em.
    tenpoundsleft and Romulus like this.
  8. #8

    tenpoundsleft Member

    Old thread - I know - but it has great info and there's not much on kettlebells on this site, so why not continue this thread?

    I've started doing one-handed inverted kettlebell presses (bottom-up) where I start from the floor, and in one move pull up and flip the KB so the base is up. Then, starting from low shoulder position, I press up, do that for 10-12 reps, then change hand.

    It's been great - it really has helped with my right shoulder, almost no "electric jolts" any more.

    And it is brutally revealing of weaknesses, my left hand was way behind my right at first. Now I'm working my final sets with 24kg (53lb) bells, doing 10-12 reps with my right, and 6-7 with my left.

    Anyone else out there who likes this exercise? I love it.

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