Letro equivalent for a-dex for TRT

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by newtpig, May 19, 2009.

  1. #1

    newtpig Junior Member

    I know some people use low dosages of a-dex, like .25mg every day or 3 times a week to help control their E2.

    What would the equivalent be if using Letro?

    Yes, letro is waaaay stronger, so some people avoid it, but isnt that what dosing is for?

    Has anyone successfully used letro for E2 control on TRT? Something real low like 0.1mg a day or every 3 days or something?

    Ive heard some people recommend 1mg a WEEK. Some only take .25mg twice a week, etc

    Anyone successful with letro? Its far cheaper and easier to get, so just wondering.
    Seems like it would be a good solution if you just dilute it and would be super cheap this way.
  2. #2

    Jeton Member

    i just finished a 90-day course of full-strength (2.5 mg/day) letrozole, and i'm looking forward to more normal E2 levels. at full-dose it takes 60 days to reach stable blood levels, so i think u'd need to work from a daily-dosing model and subdivide the dose accordingly. do you really feel like powdering tabs and taking precisely one-twenty-fifth of that power daily? then testing 4 weeks later and modulating to one-fifteenth or one-thirty-fifth?

    given the faster metabolism of letrozole, it seems like a needless headache for longterm use...
  3. #3

    newtpig Junior Member

    But you can get letro already in liquid form which could make dosing pretty easy.
    Its an E2 nuclear bomb. Im betting a dose of "1 drop" per day, could actually have a decent effect. You could always dilute it further to make dosing even easier.
    At least thats what im theorizing.
  4. #4

    newtpig Junior Member

  5. #5

    BBC3 Member

    Technically adex shuts down 80% E in days. Letro 98%. It looks (reading prescribing info) like Letro is similar and reaches full concnetration within a couple of hours. I would like to point out an interesting note that when used for fighting cancer the dose appears to be 25mgs and up. I am sure we are dealing with the same situation as with ADEX or any of these. They are designed to block the estrogen aromatization to whole degress (80 and 90+ %). The letro appears. TO CLARIFY. The manufacturer states the "estrogen suppression was seen at doses as low as 5mgs, however, maximum 98% suppression occured in a 25mg dose..

    Seems like the AAS protocol is 2.5mgs unless I am thinking of another. Based on what I read i would say that 2.5 mgs would only get you right where you need to be.

    It would also appear that Letro is not all that much more kick after all. I would also like to note that Letro is a "suicide inhibitor" whereas I do not think Adex is. This could account for the difference. I believe the concept behind the suicide is that the aromataze enzyme is for all technical purposes, (destroyed). And that you can't aromatize any more estrogen until your body produces more aromataze enzymes.?? This would mean that with Adex you could dose back down to correct an overdose pretty quickly as it only has 3-6 day half-life. Once you have fucked up the aromataze enzymes with Letro, you are done making estrogen till the next batch of enzymes is issued by you body.

    Summary: Letro is OBVIOUSLY the choice for "b-cup" emergencies, however, for daily estrogen control it would be much simpler to use Adex. No one should need more than 80% elimination of estrogen anyway. Someone correct me if wrong.

    Finally we must also address issues such as toxicity and carcinogenic possibililty .
  6. #6

    BBC3 Member

    It also looks like Letro may indeed have some "restart" capability.:

    Other Endocrine Effects: exemestane does not bind significantly to steroidal receptors,
    except for a slight affinity for the androgen receptor (0.28% relative to dihydrotestosterone).
    The binding affinity of its 17-dihydrometabolite for the androgen receptor, however, is 100-
    times that of the parent compound. Daily doses of exemestane up to 25 mg had no
    significant effect on circulating levels of androstenedione, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, or
    17-hydroxyprogesterone, and were associated with small decreases in circulating levels of
    testosterone. Increases in testosterone and androstenedione levels have been observed at
    daily doses of 200 mg or more. A dose-dependent decrease in sex hormone binding globulin
    (SHBG) has been observed with daily exemestane doses of 2.5 mg or higher. Slight,
    nondose-dependent increases in serum luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating
    hormone (FSH) levels have been observed even at low doses as a consequence of feedback at
    the pituitary level. Exemestane 25 mg daily had no significant effect on thyroid function [free
    triiodothyronine (FT3), free thyroxine (FT4) and thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH)].
    Coagulation and Lipid Effects: In study 027 of postmenopausal women with early breast
    cancer treated with exemestane (N=73) or placebo (N=73), there was no change in the
    coagulation parameters activated partial thromboplastin time [APTT], prothrombin time [PT]
    and fibrinogen. Plasma HDL cholesterol was decreased 69% in exemestane treated patients;
    total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, triglycerides, apolipoprotein-A1, apolipoprotein-B, and
    lipoprotein-a were unchanged. An 18% increase in homocysteine levels was also observed in
    exemestane treated patients compared with a 12% increase seen with placebo
  7. #7

    BrianEE93 Junior Member

    ^^^^^^^^ Sounds like a good summary to me.
  8. #8

    BrianEE93 Junior Member

    I didn't think that was the same as Letro.
  9. #9

    Jeton Member

    BBC, i think u might be mistaken here. my understanding is that arimidex (Anastrozole) and Femara (letrozole) share the same mechanism of action, and that aromasin (Exemestane) is the only *suicide* aromatase inhibitor among the three.

    also, the Letrozole profile here on Meso suggests that Letro is much more estrogen-suppressive than adex, microgram for microgram, or milligram for milligram.
  10. #10

    BBC3 Member

    Thanks you are right. Not too much difference however. Dosing plasma concentration is 2-6 weeks?? and 1to 2 day to peak plasma. Shuts down anywhere from 75-95% within 1-2 days and IS Dose Dependent. Still it looks like not too much difference from adex. I dont think this one is a suicide inhibitor either.

    My bad and good catch on that one. I knew that dosing wasn't correct.?!?! Just go side tracked. The aromasin kept comming up and I couldn't get it off the screen. The Aromasin does seem to be the most powerful of all three, I am just not sure about that suicide thing.....

    Regarding the comparison here on this board (between Adex and Letro) Adex only requires 1mg/day to reach 80% estrogen suppression in 2 days. The Letro requires as little as .1 mgs/day to get to anywhere from 75-95%. At first the 2.5mgs dose of letro sounds like less bang for the buck. BUT when you read the clinical trials and see that they were testing anywhere from .1mg to 5 mgs, it is obviously the stronger of the two.

    Again, THanks for the correction. The letro appears to be a pretty good option for E2 control. Probably want liquid though.
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
  11. #11

    Jeton Member

    always happy to help, i'm still a noob about all this myself. incidentally, i dont know if Aromasin is necessarily more powerful, just that it works differently. my impression is that it's about as effective as Adex for overall suppression, but that the suicide mechanism makes it more useful than Adex in some circumstances and less so in others.

    as for Letro, i still think it's far too powerful for longterm E2 control, even with a reliable liquid formulation. i suspect one would always be chasing their latest bloodwork.
  12. #12

    newtpig Junior Member

    2.5mg of letro is waaaaaaaaaaaay too much for E2 control.

    Body Builders with gyno issues they wish to resolve, use 2.5mg, and it wipes out their sex drives, gives them achy joints, and basically destroys all E.

    Sometimes they use letro while on a big cycle, and do .25mg each day when taking tons of test and other stuff.

    At the far lower TRT dosages, I think .1mg a couple time a week may be plenty.
    Im thinking letro is avoided, because its so strong, its just too easy to send your E2 too low. But thats why Im asking the question if anyone has been successful with it by using extra small doses.

    I mean... worst case you could dilute it 10 to 1, and dose from that solution if you really wanted to get your dosing accurate.

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