Long Term Use of HCG-good or bad???

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by mqsymth, Nov 16, 2009.

  1. #1

    mqsymth Junior Member

    The use of hcg and it's short term benefits has been discussed at length on this
    forum. However there are no research papers that I know of
    after searching the web on the long term effects of HCG shots.

    The HCG hormone can be made synthetically or extracted from a pregnant woman's
    urine and then processed for use by other humans.

    My major concern besides the physiological effect of sticking syringes into your
    thigh or subQ 150 times a year is what are the long term effects of HCG therapy?
    Has there been any medical research performed on mice/monkeys etc on the safety
    on long term HCG. Can long term use cause cancer? Can long term use damage the
    endoctrine system? Can long term use cause heart or vascular problems?

    Long term TRT has many medical research papers on the benefits and side effect
    such that we can feel confident in TRT use. But long term HCG therapy has none
    which for me is scary
  2. #2

    HeadDoc Psychologist; Super Moderator

    good points. My guess at this point is that Dr. Shippen would be the best source of information as he has been using it with his patients for many years. I don't know if any of the vets here are using him?
    Millard Baker likes this.
  3. #3

    zkt Member

    Doubt that you find any clinical studies re. long term hcg use in males.
    This use is a bit off-label.
    I think it safe to not worry about the cancer thing. Altho hcg is secreted by some cancer cells there is no indication that it is the cause.
    The thing to be concerned about is receptor down-regulation, or as some call it, insensitivity. The two are not the same tho; down-regulation is reversible and insensitivity is less so.

    Last edited: Nov 17, 2009
    Millard Baker likes this.
  4. #4

    zkt Member

    The most common type of receptor insensetivity is insulin insensetivity and minifests an type 2 diabetes. The receptors for LH and insulin are not psyiologically the same. As I understand it, the LH receptor cant become insensetive, as receptor activation involves a chemical bonding between receptor and activator molecules: receptor molecules simply decrease in the presense of increasing levels of stimulant.
    This brings up the question of how much is too much. Note that hcg mimics LH, FSH and TSH and that the serum concentrations of these hormones arent the same. A dose of hcg acts will contribute unequally to serum LH, FSH and TSH with LH being the most prominant and FSH the least.
    It is quite possible to stimulate the thyroid. I and others have done it and the texts bear this possibility out. Thyroid stimulation certainly indicates too much as serum t3,4 levels are well below LH.
    The anechdodal evidence indicates that the boys plump up with hcg use. I have yet to see evidence that they lose mass but dont doubt that they would eventually.
    Concerning individual doseage one must consider the condition of the Leydig cells, the LH, PRL, and ACTH secreting cells of the pituitary, the adrenal cortex, and the whole brain-body-health complex.
    Thre is no way that anyone can tell you how much is too much without labs or you are in touch with yourself.
  5. #5

    hardasnails1973 Active Member

    As long as there are no desensitiation of the testicles and numbers are good and do not decrease as well as symptoms are alleviated then that says enough.
  6. #6

    mqsymth Junior Member

    Didn't they say the same thing for Premarin for women when it first came out?
  7. #7

    zkt Member

    You are comparing apples to oranges.
    Horse urine is not endogenous to humans but hcg is.
    Clever remark tho.

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premarin"]Premarin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Estrone_sulfate.svg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Estrone_sulfate.svg/120px-Estrone_sulfate.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/1/15/Estrone_sulfate.svg/120px-Estrone_sulfate.svg.png[/ame]

  8. #8

    railrider Junior Member

    So hardsasnails you say if labs show ok you feel great with no symptoms its ok. Even with no LONG TERM STUDIES TO KNOW SIDES. Then what about clomid you repeat that it can't be used long term because of know long term studies but it works for some and makes there try better. There's atleast 12mo studies of clomid used on men with no harmful sides. Why is it ok for one drug and not the other. Quote from HARDASNAILS As long as there are no desensitiation of the testicles and numbers are good and do not decrease as well as symptoms are alleviated then that says enough.
    Posted from my Android device
  9. #9

    LW64 Well-Known Member

    Long-term studies are expensive and the main player drugs in TRT are either patented for other intended uses or have an expired patent. That leaves no real financial reason for any pharmaceutical company to fund the kinds of studies you're talking about. The non-profits like government have their own particular set of research priorities and I believe it's very unlikely this is one of them.
  10. #10

    railrider Junior Member

    I just want to know how they justify using an excuse for one med and not every other one in the same boat.
  11. #11

    LW64 Well-Known Member

    Because in the case of hcg there's no other choice. If you want to maintain testicular size and fertility (assuming you're secondary) when you're on some form of TRT your only practical option is HCG.
  12. #12

    pumpingiron22 Awesome Member

  13. #13
    Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Awesome Member

    What evidence do you need when multiparious females have provided plenty of evidence this NATURALLY produced compound is about as safe as any FDA approved hormone.

    The primary concern I would have is whether biologically recovered HCG is capable of transmitting infectious diseases.

    However to date I've seen no evidence to support that concern
    and I suspect the introduction of rHCG has eliminated that issue also.

    Let's not confuse "safety", with the inference completely WO side effects, bc ALL drugs have side effects (like Premarin which is still on the market)

    But is it "safe"? About as safe as getting your SO pregnant :)

    (Now "they" tell me this thread was started in 2009, lol)
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015
    biglumber69, LW64 and pumpingiron22 like this.
  14. #14

    LW64 Well-Known Member

    It doesn't matter, Dr. Jim.

    You're providing terrific info as usual.
  15. #15
    Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Awesome Member

    Yea to dead people for all I know :)

© 1997–2015 MESO-Rx. All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer.