Mortality and lack of health insurance

Discussion in 'Political Discourse' started by cvictorg, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. #1

    cvictorg Member

  2. #2
    Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Thanks for the link. However, their conclusion says is ALL!

  3. #3

    james2012 Member

    Oh good God please!!!! I have relatives, friends, blog followers in just about every Socialized medicine crap country you can think of. You want science. THIS is what every single doctor I have talked to is telling me we are heading. Not ONE SINGLE PRACTICING MD HAS SAID OTHERWISE. THIS IS WHAT WE ARE IN STORY FOR:

    NHS death rates four times higher than US

    If you are seriously ill you are fu*$ed. Got a cold, hey its great, they will even visit you at your house. Just Google where the politicians used to go - and will until ObamaCare screws everyone while taking down the economy - when they needed the best service with the best outcomes.

    Give me a break. Like Climate Change, pay someone for a predetermined report and they will twist it. Those of us smart enough and connected enough know better. But a fool will believe what a fool will believe.
  4. #4
    Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    Oh please the slippery slope has returned BS. Welcome to my world where people come to the ED by ambulance for "sob" because of a cold. ED availability is undeniable in any reasonably sized community in this country, access to and understanding the importance of preventive care (for some that would require a brain transplant) not.

    The primary problem IMO Dr S is some folk develop complications" in spite of themselves because they don't stop drinking, smoking, OR begin treating their BP med or insulin as PRIORITY like FOOD! Simply put they don't give a shit, and are more than willing to go on SSI disability once complications occur.

    Because for many LIFESTYLE is what is "killing people" and not necessarily absence of "health insurance. For example folks if YOU REALLY BELIEVE providing health insurance to a schizophrenic, drunk, over dosed, homeless, morbidly obese, smoker with COPD, will make a damn bit of difference in the "health" of this country, the government will have all your money shortly, LOL!

    james2012 likes this.
  5. #5

    james2012 Member

    Future Of Obamacare: Ontario, Canada Medical System In Chaos

    And don't get me wrong here - this is a rosy picture of ObamaCare. Canada has 30 million people in the entire country. We have 10 times that amount and a behemoth bureaucracy even heh Canadians are starting to look sideways at and wonder what the hell we are doing. Thank God for Canadian Free Press.

    One last thing that I am going to research, although I can tell you right now what the outcome will be: TRT IT OUT FOR COVERAGE. Your read it. Given the ad blitz for low T, look for gels like Testim, which cost 300-600/month (5g or 10g - same with androgel) to NOT be covered. I hope you have money cause you are going to be one your own.

  6. #6

    cvictorg Member

    U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health - Institute of Medicine
    The United States is among the wealthiest nations in the world, but it is far from the healthiest. For many years, Americans have been dying at younger ages than people in almost all other high-income countries. This health disadvantage prevails even though the U.S. spends far more per person on health care than any other nation. To gain a better understanding of this problem, the NIH asked the National Research Council and the IOM to investigate potential reasons for the U.S. health disadvantage and to assess its larger implications.

    No single factor can fully explain the U.S. health disadvantage. It likely has multiple causes and involves some combination of inadequate health care, unhealthy behaviors, adverse economic and social conditions, and environmental factors, as well as public policies and social values that shape those conditions. Without action to reverse current trends, the health of Americans will probably continue to fall behind that of people in other high-income countries. The tragedy is not that the U.S. is losing a contest with other countries, but that Americans are dying and suffering from illness and injury at rates that are demonstrably unnecessary.

    U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health | Physicians for a National Health Program

    The panel's inquiry found multiple likely explanations for the U.S. health disadvantage:

    * Health systems. Unlike its peer countries, the United States has a relatively large uninsured population and more limited access to primary care. Americans are more likely to find their health care inaccessible or unaffordable and to report lapses in the quality and safety of care outside of hospitals.

    * Health behaviors. Although Americans are currently less likely to smoke and may drink alcohol less heavily than people in peer countries, they consume the most calories per person, have higher rates of drug abuse, are less likely to use seat belts, are involved in more traffic accidents that involve alcohol, and are more likely to use firearms in acts of violence.

    * Social and economic conditions. Although the income of Americans is higher on average than in other countries, the United States also has higher levels of poverty (especially child poverty) and income inequality and lower rates of social mobility. Other countries are outpacing the United States in the education of young people, which also affects health. And Americans benefit less from safety net programs that can buffer the negative health effects of poverty and other social disadvantages.

    * Physical environments. U.S. communities and the built environment are more likely than those in peer countries to be designed around automobiles, and this may discourage physical activity and contribute to obesity.

    The tragedy is not that the United States is losing a contest with other countries, but that Americans are dying and suffering from illness and injury at rates that are demonstrably unnecessary. Superior health outcomes in other nations show that Americans can also enjoy better health.

    "U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health" - Full 405 page report can be downloaded for free at this link:
    U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health


    By Don McCanne, M.D.

    The United States is sick, literally and figuratively. We have the most expensive health care system, yet the worst health outcomes of the wealthier nations. The failures are not only with our health system but with much broader sociopolitical institutions.

    In response to these glaring deficiencies, this NRC/IOM report places an emphasis on further research to better define the problem and identify interventions that would help. Research is fine, but we do not need to wait any longer when so many of the deficiencies our already in our face.

    The brief paragraph above on health systems confirms the pressing need for an effective universal insurance system, along with an expansion of our primary care infrastructure. Enacting the PNHP single payer model would finally set us in the right direction toward a high-performance health care system.

    The social and economic conditions, physical environments, and health behaviors demonstrate a crying need for much more effective sociopolitical public policies. Not only do we need a reinforcement of our public health system, we also need greater public action in education, community planning, and especially responsible government policies to correct the gut-wrenching social and economic injustices that permeate our society.

    From the opponents of reform we continue to hear that we have the greatest health care system in the world and that we have the very best health outcomes. Download this highly credible report so that you will have it readily available to expose these liars for what they are. Also use it to educate politicians on the broad spectrum of urgent public policies that we so desperately need.

    And while we're at it, we need to fire the politicians who are promulgating these cruel lies.
  7. #7

    james2012 Member

    It's called stress and poor eating habits. Learn how to look at data and see through the BS cvictor. Wealthy nation, strong work ethic, lots of stress, and poor health habits equals big problems. It does NOT equate to a healthcare system that is somehow failing. Until Obambicare we had the BEST healthcare system in the world. Why the hell do you think folks with the enough money and from all over the world came HERE to get the best treatment? Explain that one Einstein.

    But you will learn soon enough. Won't be long before the huge premium increases are not just on the periphery anymore. The election next year is toast for the Dems and they know it. They are terrified of ObamaCare now - palpably so. When middle class American sees that basic coverage (the Bronze plan) under ObamaCare for a family of four is going to cost them $20,000 (and here you thought it was affordable), watch for the proverbial crap to hit the fan. ObamaCare is not going to last until the end of Obama's term. However, I have doubts the RINOs will create anything better. Socialized medicine or Fascist medicine? Hmm....I think they both suck. And before anyone goes all apes*it on my use of words, I use the word Fascist in its real sense, not the crap the Libs throw around without understanding what the hell they are talking about.

    Oh, and you just wait until what I said above happens. As soon as the central planning committee figure out how expensive the TRT gels are then you can kiss any coverage of them goodbye Comrade. And just like Canada and Great Britain, look for Compounding Pharmacies to start disappearing - regulation is the new way Comrade. Forget about Armidex or hcg shots for off label use. Forget about clomid or nolvadex for off label use. You are about to learn what living under the boot of the overlord is really like. I have Canadian relatives whose provinces are moving away from government coverage and starting to privatize. They get one look at that chart shown during the debates on all the different bureaucracies and the lines connecting them and can't believe how stupid we are. What we have now dwarfs their public servant laden system.

    AND they are drilling in the tar frigging crazy, and telling the environuts to go blow themselves. I'm starting to look North, as are a lot of doctor's. Corporate taxes are lower and once the healthcare system is fixed they can lower their taxes and get bloated on oil money. As someone with dual citizenship married to a Brit, getting back in while Rome burns down south is starting to look like an attractive proposition. Enjoy your slavery.

    Standing in's what Comrades do.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  8. #8

    cvictorg Member

    It's always nice to hear from an ASSHOLE!!
  9. #9

    james2012 Member

    What are you, 10? Great rebuttal there and a sign you have surrendered the argument. What's next? The dreaded na-na-na-ne-boo-boo? Please, not that. I don't think I could take that!
  10. #10

    zkt Member

    Just courious James, believe in evolution?
  11. #11

    james2012 Member

    Um, yes. So what point did you have to make there? If I did not and was lets say a Creationist what difference would that make? I don't believe they are right, but I know some very intelligent Creationists who could with argue you with their eyes closed whiled wiping their arse and reciting the multiplication table under their breath.

    Your point? What are you - an atheist? Interestingly a question I asked them during a recent conference here in Austin they could not answer - why is there something rather than nothing? Or more succinct, they thought they could answer but at some point they came up against a proposition they could prove neither true nor false (I had materialists, scientism followers, and others attempt, but fail). Their initial supposition they had to accept on faith - just to use one example (math exists in some Platonic realm that has always existed). Really? Okay, prove it. So they HAD to admit by reason alone that they were faith based, that ALL philosophical though is faith based. The only philosophy I have ever come across that is not is Kitaro Nishada's philosophy from the Kyoto school of Japan.

    Pissed them off, but at least they were honest.

    Favorite question though for a professor from England that stopped him in his tracks. He states there is no such thing as absolute truth and all truths are relative - a favorite of liberals everywhere and easily shot to pieces with one single question: "Are you absolutely true there are no absolute truths?". I'll let you figure out the trap they set themselves up for and guess what the look on his face was like. He went from sounding intelligent to mumbling like a 100 year old man with serious dementia.

    Want to argue philosophy with me? Let's go. I can make a grown man cry - been doing this for decades now.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013

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