My PCT Journal to kickstart HPTA post HRT

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by BigAk, Jul 12, 2006.

  1. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Background:
    39 year old bodybuilder. I've been on HRT taking androgel, hcg, and arimidex for the past year and a half during which I've done a low dose cycle of Test Enth and EQ. Before then, I have been off and on for 2.5 years.

    Present:
    I have just stopped AndroGel a week ago today. I have also done a low dose of test weekly in addition to AndroGel at 200mg.. My last shot of Test Enth was 2.5 weeks ago on June 24th. I have not stopped my dosage of HCG however, and that's 300iu's every third day as part of my HRT regimen. I have stopped Arimidex though.

    Recovery Protocol (Inspired by Dr. Mike Scally):
    2500 iu HCG EOD for 8 shots (15 days total)
    20mg of nolvadex for 45 days
    50mg of clomid taken twice daily 12hours apart for a total of 30 days

    Current feeling:
    I would say that my testosterone levels have started to drop low.. I have no libido and no AM wood. Although I am not depressed, I can't say that I'm feeling too happy. I am looking forward to successfully recovering my HPTA but the worry about what's coming up is making me feel kind of down and bit scared. I know that I have been pretty shut down for a long time now.

    Day one:
    This morning I have taken 50mg of Clomid. I am using some liquid research kind and hoping that it's quality stuff. The company has been around for years. I have Nolvadex coming within three days. However, I do have about two doses to hold me over. Last night I took 300iu's of HCG as I was doing during my HRT. My nuts are not in bad shape IMO due to the regular HCG intake. I recall a long ago before HCG, they were too small and soft. I am optimistic about them doing the job soon. I will be bumping HCG to 2500 starting tomorrow. Or I may do 2000iu's tonight.
     
  2. chap

    chap Junior Member

    good luck!

    the first week or so is definitely torture, but stick it out, it will get better rapidly

    Quitting hrt and doing a recovery protocal was one of the best decisions I ever made
     
  3. eeso

    eeso Junior Member

    Is 2500iu really necessary? Seems massive. Does 2500iu really give any better effect than say, 1000iu?
     
  4. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Day 2:

    Hey chap... It felt good to wake up this morning to read the first msg on my journal from you specifically. My journal is inspired by yours actually. Thank you for the encouragement. It's very much needed during this time. I've been meaning to ask you actually. I know that you've been recovered for a quite sometime now; have you suffered a relapse by any chance?? I've read about other guys going through a relapse post recovery and having to restart therapy again. Also; have you finally gotten a chance to do your blood work to see actual numbers?? Again; I appreciate your support through this. Please follow my journal as I may need your support throughout my program. :)

    Update:
    Last night I ended up taking the entire 2500iu's of hcg. It felt kind of weird since I've never taken this much at one time before. I'm pretty lean; so after injection there was this lump on my belly.. lol..
    I also took my second 50mg of clomid and only 10mg of nolvadex.. I am still waiting for my Nolvadex to come in. In the mean time, I have to use the very little I had from a while back sparingly. Nolvadex should come in Sat I predict.

    Last night was a little tough in the sense that while driving back home, I felt kind of emotional and worried... not sure if it's hormonal or self induced though. Felt better once I talked to my wife at home.

    I hit the sack early as I was really tired.. had a good night sleep.
    This morning, I woke up feeling alright... No morning wood and labido is at non-existence level. This morning I have this strange feeling as if I am getting ready to take a final exam at school. This feeling presists and I've been experiencing it most of the time as long as I have pct on the mind. It usually goes away once I get busy at work.

    That's it for now..
     
  5. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Day 2:

    Yes.. I thought so also.. However, I've been reading from other guys experience. They're claiming this dosage was the ticket after failing at smaller dosages. Usually bodybuilders will a 1000iu ED.. Which is really about similar or close to 2500iu's EOD.

    I have also read the insert that comes with the hcg. Some dosages can be far more than 2500iu's ... They outline a few protocols, and a few of them are up to 5000iu's a day three times a week. Therefore, I probably should not worry too much about my dose at 2500iu's.... Any further input is welcomed though.
     
  6. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Day 2:

    Evening:
    This evening is going well.. I'm feeling pretty good and happy actually; which is a big contrast from yesterday's evening. Could it be the big jolt of test induced by the hcg?? dunno!!! But, I'm feeling good.

    I forgot to mention.. My workout yesterday (day1) was okay despite feeling down.. I did squats but didn't push it too hard.. only went up to 275lb.

    I hope I'm not boring everybody... This jouranl is important to me to help me monitor where I've been throughout this experience.
     
  7. Matt Muscle

    Matt Muscle Junior Member

    No not at all. It will be very interesting to see how you go. Hope you can get some labs done along the way.
     
  8. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    How do most around here feel about the quality of clomid and nolvadex that come from research labs?? I was hoping to convince my doctor to go for this pct therapy and write me a script, but instead he frowned on it and went on to convincing me to stay on HRT. Therefore, research brands is what I have to work with.. The company I'm using has been around for many years. I'm not sure if it's against the rule of the board to mention their name. Any input is appreciated.
     
  9. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Day 3:

    Woke up this morning feeling average. My libido is at zero mark still, and my erection is terrible. This leads me to believe that my test is very low at this point. My energy is up however, and I feel no depression. I still have the feeling as if I'm about to take a pop quiz though.. I guess this is due to the fact that I don't know what to expect from this.

    Testes size is good.

    I am scheduled for a physical on the 31'st, and I'll be getting blood tests done. This date is 4 days after my last scheduled shot of hcg. Do you guys think I should postpone the physical till after the end of my pct protocol? Dr. Scally recommends performing blood work after the last shot of HCG to measure Total T in order to determine if the testes are doing their job. If I do that, I'll probably have a hard time convincing my doctor to do another blood work a month later. I'm not sure what to do about this. Any input is appreciated.

    Tonight will be my second shot of HCG at 2500iu's.
     
  10. chap

    chap Junior Member

    no relapse, if anything I think I might be still improving, but I havent done any bloodtests yet to see what the various levels are doing. Libido isnt high, but functionality is great when I do use it, just never get that youthful urgency that I have been hoping for, but maybe that is part of being in my 40s, takes a minute or so to warm up and then sensation and quality are great.

    Strong and lean, feel great...... I was just thinking today how good I feel and how much better it feels to be natural.

    I think you will need a week or so at least after your last hcg shot to be on the road to recovery, I found hcg to act quickly and drop off quickly too, so the protocal you are on might be just prolonging your recovery and might be making you feel like crap with the hormonal swings up and down.

    I felt pretty good on every day hcg shots, but once I stopped I started to feel pretty bad very soon after my last shot, a few days at the most. Being completely off hcg and on the heavy serms, I recalll feeling noticeably muh better within 5 days.
     
  11. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Yeah... I'm 39 myself... and to be honest my libido wasn't that high for a long while despite a cycle when I was on one. I recall when I was natural 4 years ago, my libido has slowed down then compared to my 20's.. That's a fact of life. To be honest with you, I kind of perfer it this way anyway.. I recall how high libido in the past had this... nagging affect and often got me in trouble.

    Yup... I was thinking lately how much I miss my old self in every aspect. I have competed naturally before and done well. I wish I could do that again. I will try my darn best!!

    yeah... My emotions are swinging for sure... I am following this protocol as outlined by Dr. Scally and so far the plan is going well I believe. Today; I know the HCG is working which is a positive sign for me. I have often thought that my testes are gone beyond repair. But, today's morning has told me differently. Read my update below.

    So, my day is coming still?? I am hoping that after 15 days of being on clomid and nolvadex, my transition away from the HCG will be much easier... We'll see about that!!

    Chap... Thank you for following my thread and giving me some encouragement. I need all help I can get now!! :)
     
  12. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Day 4:

    Well..... This morning was very unexpected. Upon waking I had a semi AM wood that was easily brought up to a full erection. This was surprising considering that on day 3, I've had the opposite contrast. Upon thinking of the reasons for this, it was very apparent that my shots of 2500iu of hcg are doing the trick. My testes have been full and solid. This made me happy because it means that my testes are still capable of producing test on their own. During the past years, I have often thought they were gone beyond repair. Thank God for this AM experience.. :)

    I'm still on my course... Been taking my clomid at 7:30am and 7:30pm.. My Novladex finally showed up and I'm taking 20mg at 11pm daily.

    Semen is especially snow white color today, which is different from usual. I am not sure why this is. For a second, I thought Clomid was doing a trick on my vision. lol...

    Now it's about 4pm.. No libido.... But, my energy is good, and I feel alright. No depression nor anxiety existing.

    My workout yesteday (day3) was okay.. But, I am definitely not as strong as I was on HRT.. But, that's expected at this time.

    Thats' all the update for now...
     
  13. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Day 5:

    Morning...
    Felt good upon rise; with a semi AM wood just like day4.. did not test it however. Libido is still
    nil. After some caffiene, I started reading the boards etc... Some of the stuff I read reminded me
    with how I felt while on HRT... suddendly started having that old pop quiz feeling again mixed with
    mild desperation. I guess in the back in my mind I feel I'm heading in an unknown road which is
    making me nervous... laid back down in bed... closed my eyes... pop quiz feeling went away shortly.

    Time to take my 50mg of clomid.
     
  14. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Member

    Next time try this it works dam good and when you can't sleep you can do this laying down to fall a sleep. I could stop a panic attack before it got started doing this.
    http://www.ucop.edu/humres/eap/relaxationrespone.html
    Phil
     
  15. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Hmmm... That seems pretty interesting. I can imagine I'd have to practice it a few times to master it even though it sounds simple. Thank you for letting me know about this.

    I guess this feeling come about when I start thinking of what's coming ahead. For instance, I'm scared about the fact when I'm done with hcg and I'm on my own; that I won't get in trouble hormonal wise if my pituitary has not come around yet to producing LH and FSH. Does anyone know how long it would take for the pituitary to respond to clomid???
     
  16. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Member

    Yes practice this morning after you first get up and say before dinner you will get so good at it you can do in in the john at work hell I have done it on a train. If you want to know what it does for you mind and body get the fast read book it is a old book but a dam good read. I have found that once we have one panick attack just the thought can bring on the feeling of a attack and this stops the feeling dead in it's tracks. Plus if you have Adrenal problems this give them a big rest.
     
  17. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Wow... I have just found the whole book on line and started reading it.. It seems very interesting... I will read most of it and will give the technique a try for sure.. Once again; I appreciate your recommendation... I need all the help I can get.. lol..
     
  18. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Member

    Can you give me a link to the whole book I did not know it was on line.
    Phil
     
  19. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    My mistake... I spoke too soon... I thought the book I found was it.. After reading more and then going back to the front cover, it turned out to be the wrong book ----> http://books.google.com/books?vid=I...erbert+Benson&sig=5hF0sFNau587hBC3YFbkjifaCuA

    I head to Barnes @ Noble very often. I'll check it out next time I'm there.. Sorry for the mix up!! :)
     
  20. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Member

    Thats all right but I need to get a new copy everytime I turn around I let someone read it and never get it back.