New on TRT, looking for assessment of BT, etc.

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by EPZ32, May 27, 2009.

  1. EPZ32

    EPZ32 Junior Member

    Hey Guys,

    Been learning a lot from this site, some great info and knowledgeable, helpful people here. I would appreciate any feedback and recommendations. I am 40 and have been working out regularly since I was 18. I have always found it relatively easy to maintain under 10% bodyfat with a strict diet and exercise program and have had high energy levels.

    Over the last several years I've noticed a significant decrease in my energy levels and ability to stay/maintain lean and have gotten increasingly moody and somewhat depressed. After researching possible reasons, Low T seemed like a possibility so I made an appt. with a recommended anti-aging doc. Here are the results for some of the tests...there are additional ones not mentioned, let me know if any others will be helpful:

    Test, Serum - 514 ng/dL (ref. 241-827)
    Free Test - 11.4 pg/mL (ref. 6.8-21.5)
    FSH - 4.0 mlU/mL (ref. 1.4-18.1)
    SHBG - 36 nmol/L (ref. 13-71)
    Estradiol - 37 pg/mL (ref. 0-53)
    TSH - 2.237 uIU/mL 9ref. .450-4.50)

    I met with the Doc after getting these results, I also had some minimal bloodwork from 7 years ago that showed a Serum test level of 800 on the same scale but not much else. The doc noted that my test level was down over 30% from what it used to be and thought this could definitely be a reason for the changes in mood, energy, and body comp I mentioned above. After some discussion on methods of TRT, I steered him towards injectable test and he wrote me a scrip and asked me to get retested in 2 months and come back in for further assessment and decide in hcg or any Anti E was neccessary. I picked up the called in scrip and noticed it was for 200ml Test E every 3 weeks. I saw this as a red flag from what I have learned here and have decided to run 50 ml twice a week for more stable utilization.

    I know there will be many of you who recommend finding another Doc but due to cost issues I would like to stick with this guy as he seems to be very open to my suggestions. In his defense, he specializes in bio-identical TRT and usually prescribes compounded cremes.

    Please give me your feedback on the above and make any recommendations as to where I should go with this from here. I have only been taking the Test E for 2 weeks and will be going in for more bloodwork in 6 weeks.

    Thanks in advance for your consideration,

    EPZ32
     
  2. xray9

    xray9 Junior Member

    I am on TRT and wholeheartedly recommend it for those with true hypogonadism, i.e. with T and free T levels at low normal or below normal levels. But for you I would not do it.

    It is not as simple as just applying androgel or shooting test. The T you take will shut down your HPGA and your nuts will shrink as your Leydig cells atrophy and die. You can prevent this by taking hcg shots twice a week but thats another drug you will have to be on. And still your HPTA will be shut down as your pituitary gland will shut down production of LH. Also you will likely get some aromatization from the HCG and T and need arimidex to keep your E2 down. It will be a constant balancing act as all these hormones will constantly need tweaking as they affect each other. And who know how long one can be on TRT and then get off it. At 46 I've accepted the fact that I will need it for the rest of my life. Are you prepared for that?

    Your levels are pretty decent. I say if it isn't broke don't fix it. If you still want more than what mother nature gave you I'd suggest doing six week cycles followed by pct and a break. But that's covered in a different forum.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  3. newtpig

    newtpig Junior Member

    200mg every 3 weeks is only 66mg a week. (and a bad rollercoaster)
    100mg a week is the typical starting dose.

    200 every 3 weeks will likely shut you down and DROP your T levels.
    Dont do it.

    I would kill to be in the 500's. Im only 211 and the bottom of the scale is 350! Welcome to old age :)

    For someone already in the 500's, unless you are a strong responder, 100mg of Test may make you end up lower, but its where you should start.

    Do you ever plan on kids?

    If your energy and mood has just dropped a bit, im not sure its worth getting stuck into this permanent place of HRT. My symptoms were so bad I couldnt even work at one point.
    After all, you are supposed to start slowing down a little at 40. You cant feel 20 forever.
    Ive gone from being completely unfunctional, to just tired all the time on HRT that isnt quite working for me.. Still working my issues out.
    I cant even exercise. Consider yourself lucky.

    How do you energy levels compare to other 40 year olds? If the answer is better or the same, then I wouldnt touch HRT with a 50 foot pole. Like the other poster said, balancing this shit for life sucks.

    Optimize your diet, your workouts, your rest, and if the day comes where you feel like utter shit every day of your life, then consider HRT.
     
  4. well said.
     
  5. With TSH of >2 I would look at the thyroid and adrenals more carefully with proper cortisol saliva evaluation.
    Sounds like a good DR, but he needs to be more proactive in looking into other areas
     
  6. JanSz

    JanSz Junior Member

    40yo, TT=514
    7 years ago TT=800
    When you were 20yo you probably had TT~900

    Now you are hit by 4x whammy

    TT-low
    SHBG-high
    E2-low
    TSH-bad

    I am glad that you watch your health.
    You are not going to be able to influence much your SHBG.
    That alone will force you to stay on T-injections
    Your only choice now is to use HCG and T-shots.

    They way you wrote what your doctor told you to do and what you are actually doing, I cannot fgure what dose are you actually taking. But I do not need to know that.

    You will not like it, but I am recomending that you use (T& HCG) shots EOD, EveryOtherDay.
    To be able to do that, I am recomending that you use smallest available needles.
    Do both (T & HCG) shots one day the next day no shots.
    Reason for these frequent shots is mostly about blood testing.
    With shots once a week or even 2x/week using one blood draw will not give you reliable information about your

    TotalTestosterone
    E2-estrodial
    DHT

    They are all out of phase to each other and varying greately.
    Unless you are prepared to do blood draw and check those three on each day between shots (and still have some doubts).
    That is 7x blood tests when on weekly injections.

    Use testosterone, either cypionate or enanthate.
    Use only 200mg/mL density.

    Size of shots and AI (EOD schedule):
    -----------------------------------------
    T-shot=50mg=25units=0.25cc
    HCG=250iu
    arimidex=0.4mg
    -----------------------------------------

    Use these needles for both shots:

    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b at Hocks.com
    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $27.80
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Arimidex(pills)=Liquidex(liquid)=Anastrozole(liquid)

    Best use Liquidex sold by this board advertiser.
    Cut out completely needle from above syringe, use to dispense Liquidex accurately.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    After 2-3 months on above you should do blood testing.
    Preferably at Quest Diagnostics. Draw blood on the day of the shots, before shots.

    Use list on my post #44, page #2, to do your blood testing.
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2

    Post results here, we will discuss next move.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    My own Goals
    DHEAs(500-640)mcg/dL(13.55-17.34)mol/L------------------major player, 95% time overlooked
    Progesterone(0.9-1.2)ng/mL
    Pregnenolone(> 100ng/dL)
    Estradiol, Ultrasensitive(25-29)pg/mL
    Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
    do not use Anastrozole if possible or minimize its use
    BATest(342, 460-575)ng/dL------------stay around 342 if you need AI to control E2
    DHT(60-90)ng/dL
    RT3 in lower half of range, TotalT3 in upper 1/3 range
    FreeT3~400pg/dL
    Body temperature (97.8 - 98.2F) (36.56 - 36.78C); (36.6-37C)(97.9-98.6F)

    .
     
  7. EPZ32

    EPZ32 Junior Member

    Update: New Test results Re: New on TRT, looking for assessment of BT, etc.

    Hi Guys,

    I started this post back in May and recently had follow up blood work done. I have been taking Test-C 50mg twice a week (100mg/wk total). Although I have been feeling a bit better and have more energy for the most part, my recent test results somewhat baffle me.

    Here are my pre TRT blood work stats:

    Test, Serum - 514 ng/dL (ref. 241-827)
    Free Test - 11.4 pg/mL (ref. 6.8-21.5)
    FSH - 4.0 mlU/mL (ref. 1.4-18.1)
    SHBG - 36 nmol/L (ref. 13-71)
    Estradiol - 37 pg/mL (ref. 0-53)
    TSH - 2.237 uIU/mL 9ref. .450-4.50)

    Here are my most recent results after approx 8 weeks on 100mg Test-C/wk:

    Test, Serum - 379 ng/dL (ref. 241-827)
    Free Test - 10.9 pg/mL (ref. 6.8-21.5)
    SHBG - 26 nmol/L (ref. 13-71)
    Estradiol - 33 pg/mL (ref. 0-53)
    TSH - 1.990 uIU/mL 9ref. .450-4.50)
    Triiodothyronine,Free, Serum (Free t3) - 2.6 pg/ml (ref 2.3-4.2) - This was not tested before but I asked for it due to original TSH level of > 2

    Blood was taken on day of next shot before shot. As you can see my total and free T levels are
    lower than before TRT. As I mentioned, I am starting to feel better and have had no noticeable side-effects other than some water retention which seems to have subsided.

    Any idea why my T level would be lower than my baseline 4 days after a 50mg shot of Test C? I am probably going to ask my doctor if I can increase my dose of test to 150mg/wk (2X75mg) and add 250IU hcg twice a week taken the days before my T shot.

    Please provide any feedback as it will be greatly appreciated and let me know if you need anymore information.

    Thanks in Advance,

    EPZ32