PCT-My thoughts on Post cycle therapy ~ Phreezer

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by Phreezer, Jun 9, 2004.

  1. Bababooey

    Bababooey Junior Member

    Back in 2004 he said to let your balls atrophy that through his trial and error and research that worked best for him. Tons of beginners praised him and said they would take his advice. he argued with VDC and NDK about not letting them atrophy in the first place.. And as you read more recently he "has found that using during cycle works well also" which is his way of saying it works better without totally admitting it by saying also. I know we learn a lot as the years go on and Im not trying to give him a hard time, but I'm just pointing out that opinions are stated very strongly as being the best and can steer people wrong. I still can't get a straight answer on how long my hcg will last once refrigerated 10 days 14 days 30 days 4 months. "Oh just drop some on a pregnance test and see if it's positive" says one person then everyone says oh how cool never thought of that. Well how do we know how sensitive those tests are? All it proves is there is still some viable not that it's strong enought to still work etc...
  2. Bababooey

    Bababooey Junior Member

    HDH just read your reply to my other thread on hcg, Great advice thank you! I can't get a hold of the compounding pharmacy until Monday and I am suppose to mix it today (it's all in one vial) so if I need to return the 5000IU (10 weeks worth) they might not return it once mixed. I wish they send it to me in three vials so i made as I went but maybe the b12 soloution makes it last longer than using water? I'm not sure I trust the Doctor answer since half of them dont know what they are talking about lol but hopefully the pharmacy has done tests. Oh do i have to keep the powder in fridge before mixing? I did just in case.
  3. hackskii

    hackskii Member

    hcg lasts about a month using bacteriostatic water.

    Absolutly it is no mystery that keeping your nuts alive low dose during a cycle is better than bringing your nuts back to life after a cycle.
    I do both.
    Low dose @ 500iu twice a week, continue till clearance of the androgens, then just up to and into pct.
    I use clomid and nolva during PCT.

    If the nuts are not functioning, you wont recover anytime soon.
  4. HDH

    HDH Member

    You stated- "I'm just pointing out that opinions are stated very strongly as being the best and can steer people wrong.

    This is the first paragraph of the thread-

    Ive received about a half dozen emails and pms this week about post cycle therapy, Ive also been seeing a lot of posts about it latelyso I decided to go digging through some of my old archives Here are a couple of posts about Post cycle therapy.One by myself and the other by HoggI hope this helps! (REMEMBER! THIS IS ONLY MY OPPINION...AND NO ONE ELSE'S)

    Looks like he is stating what has worked best for himself.

    It seems that there was a lot of different info going around about the proper administration of HCG at the time that this was written.

    Post from Phreezer-
    Now, I don't want to get into ANOTHER big debate on HCG administration, but of all the posts I've seen about it the one that sticks out in my mind the most, and offers the most credibility is by Hogg. From my own experience I've run HCG anywhere from 7 - 10 days out and had very good results. So I'm inclined not to believe some of the posts that say take HCG two weeks or ten days BEFORE your last shot. However, those guys that say to start ten days before your last shot, have obviously had good results doing it their way...SO the question thats been floating around the board lately...Who is Right? Two weeks before last shot? Ten days before Last shot? Day after your last shot? ten days after your last shot?

    He argued with VDC and NDK about the daily use of HCG. Not about letting you balls atrophy before use. He even stated that "use every few weeks does seem to keep testicular atrophy from becoming a problem".

    Post from Phreezer-
    Personally, I think ED hcg administration is wholely unnecessary. If doing longer cycles HCG administration every few weeks does seem to keep testicular atrophy from becoming a problem.. Remember, we are men, and as such we must worry about Leydig cell desensitization.. because of this I would refrain from doing any injections that were not necessary.. Personally, I would prefer to avoid placing myself in a situation where I would have to be on hRT for the rest of my life.

    Remember, this was a time that HCG didn't have a "set" way to administer.

    So what you did was joined a board, read over some 4 1/2 year old information and then insulted a Mod.

    .....and now you want your answer on HCG storage.

    Show a little respect......

  5. hackskii

    hackskii Member

    I have noticed this.
    I am 49, and it takes me 20,000iu of hcg for my nuts to be online.
    This can be low dose during the cycle, or all during pct.
    HCG I have found to work best EOD, at late afternoon, but I cant sleep this time, so I cant do that, but I do notice the best plumping of my nuts if shot about 4 or so hours before bed.

    HCG can be run during PCT, and the desentization issues are alomost nill with the use of nolva.
    Of course, recovery is dependant on the type of gear used, time on, amount of gear, age, also if an AI was used during the cycle. Not to mention if HCG was used.

    Size of the nuts for recovery does nothing to guage endo test production.
    Leydig cells are not the total volume of the nuts, sertoli cells are a concern too if one was to concieve.

    clomid @ 100mg, after 5 to 7 days doubles LH out put and can increase FSH by as much as 50%................................That is huge.

    Here is the deal, get your nuts rolling along, and recovery will be much easier, the pituitary comes onlne pretty quick, the nuts take time, if you are not willing to push them into action....

    I could care less who is right or wrong.
    If your nuts are not online prior to the SERMS then you will compromise recovery...........
  6. Bababooey

    Bababooey Junior Member

    I'm sorry if my frustrations have upset me so much, but its hard sifting through so many different opinions on things when you are trying to do it right. Even the "experts can't seem to give me a straight answer on things. I called my compounding pharmacy and they tell me 14 days on the hcg then i tell them they mailed me a ten week supply and all the sudden they said 60 days. I asked if they have tested it after 60 days to check its viability and they said no we are going by the package insert in Novarell which is the same thing. I call Walgreens and there novarell insert says 14 days!! And even if it was 60 they sent me a 74 day supply all in one sealed vial!! how hard would it have been for me to get 5 1000IU bottles?
  7. hackskii

    hackskii Member

    Pregnyl comes in 1500iu and 5000iu
    Some chineese stuff comes in 2000iu
    Novarel comes in 10,000iu

    Novarel comes with bacteriostatic water, and once mixed and refigerated will last about 30 days.
    Pregnyl comes with salene and does not last 30 days.

    If you got some generic stuff that does not have bacteriostatic water, I would suggest you buy some, it is just 6 bucks most places online for a 30ml bottle.
  8. patd8686@gmail.com

    patd8686@gmail.com Junior Member

    guys please stop asking the same questions

    jesus guys, there really is so much info on pct. phreezers, swales, i read that stuff a lond time ago at a totally different board. now some of you are asking the poor guy "gee, i ran 200mg's of deca for 6 weeks, should i do hcg. it is unreal some of the questions. someone asked where to get it. look around the boards. it ain't hard too find 5,ooo iu pregnyl for $26-$35 . really i just got done reading all nite that you should do the hcg during the whole cycle. 250-or-500iu 2x a week. run some a lite dose arimidex. half a pill eod or half a day. run the hcg for about a week after the last shot than do 30 days of 20mg nolva and 100 clomid.

    so that's one way many people swear by. it makes sense. but that so does phreezers. you need to find out what it is u need to do. sorry, but some the repetition was too much. i see graybass is hear. i have been a senior member at outlaw for 6 years. but i like this board alot also.

    some of the othersboards really are pretty bad.


    no disrespect to you phreezer your way makes as much sense as the other way i was seriously considering doing i am 39 don't want to be hrt for life.

    pat d.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008

    FLEXIMO Junior Member

    I was wondering if you could give me advice on a winstrol only cycle.im looking for strength, and to slim up a little bit.do not care about getting bigger.was thinking about winstrol 40mg day four weeks,can i add proviron or clomid;need some advice please.
  10. Phreezer

    Phreezer Member

    that's kind of a weak route to go.. If you're taking it orally you reall need to run about 100mg ed if you just have to do an oral only cycle of winstrol. If you're injecting you can get by with about 50mg ED. When you take it orally only about 40% or so actually survives the Digestive tract so 40mg ed is a waste of your time and money.. Dbol survise the GI tract much better and would be a lot better drug to use at those dosage if you only had the courage to do an oral only cycle.

    WHenever you use AAS for more than a few weeks you're going to have some natural suppression but if you stick that that 40mg ed stuff of winstrol for 4 weeks I wouldn't think any pct would be necesssary. That's so mild if there is any suppression it will be mild and you'll get over it naturally pretty quick.
  11. hackskii

    hackskii Member

    clomid @ 100mg ED doubles LH output and increases FSH by 20 to 50% in just 5 to 7 days.
    So, at the very least, to fire up the pituitary fast, clomid would be nice.

    Winstrol from my personal experiance is farily supressive, but even more jacked my lipid profile up pretty bad.
    nolvadex at the end of a cycle will help to lower cholesterol,
  12. swe1975

    swe1975 Junior Member

    thanx for the good reading!
    i have myself never done a pct after a cycle since i started up during the early 90s but i am getting older and are having harder to get back after a cycle so i will start doing pct after my cycle has reached its end but that will take a couple of months more untill i have reached the time for that i have started getting some nolvadex for later and i just started to use proviron during this sustanon cycle 1amp eod due to the heavy water my body contained and it seems to be helping me out so that is great so thanx for this info it will be of good use when the time comes for the pct and if i dont remember wrong i have to wait for about 2-3weeks untill i can start up the pct if i am using sustanon still at the time for pct i am thinking of doing a short ending a couple of weeks with tren,winstrol or halotestin to shorten the wait so i can start with the pct as soon as possible when i am off the gear!
    i have some info on that winstrol or halotestin has a much faster or how i should put it!(i can start with pct much faster if i end the sustanon and switch over to a high dosage of halo or winny at the very last weeks(4-5weeks)and then pct after a couple of days i think winny is ok for a fast start on pct dont have to wait so long to start up with it when comparing it to sustanon and the trenbolone before the orals and after the sustanon will probably shuttdown the bodys own production of hormones even further than the sustanon allready has done so a oral like winny or halotestin for a couple of weeks after i have discontinued the trenbolone(parabolan or enanthate or acetate that is the question it is up to what is in stock for the best price at the moment and what brand it is)

    thanx for the info it is never to late to start doing something that is improving the gains to be keept a little better than i usually does have had good keepings of the gains even with out the pct but after reading this and looking around other info on the pct that could give me a better start at the end of the cycle
  13. Angela T

    Angela T Junior Member

  14. DizzyD

    DizzyD Junior Member

    thanks alot good info!
  15. NeuroEndoDO

    NeuroEndoDO Junior Member

    Thank you for your knowledge and experience. This is now one young doc who feels like I got a good handle on a clear PCT protocol for patients. From your posts it looks like you usually do not run hcg for more than two weeks consecutively. Is there a specific reason for this?

    I am trying to figure out how long is safe to have pts use 1000 IU hCG EOD or E3D without it leading to axis suppression. I certainly do not want to make anyone primary hypo in my attempt to cure their secondary hypo.

    Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you
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  17. ironmanlives79

    ironmanlives79 Junior Member

    OK, so i have a novice question, lets say i start a beginner cycle with sustanton 250 per week and d-bol oral 10-15mg ed for 6 week cycle... ive heard from a few people who have used hcg 2 time a week during cycle at 300iu's per shot (600 per week), that it keeps the testicles from shrinking any, at this dosage of aas would that be a safe way to start using hcg?? Then post cycle i was going to use clomid for 2 wks... i know everybody has diff cases, but is this feasable??
  18. rutman

    rutman Member

    You've been digging deep...
    pumpingiron22 likes this.
  19. pumpingiron22

    pumpingiron22 Member AnabolicLab.com Supporter

  20. Mr.B66

    Mr.B66 Member AnabolicLab.com Supporter

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