Post cycle blood work.

Discussion in 'Steroid Lab Testing' started by Oldman., Mar 27, 2018.

  1. Oldman.

    Oldman. Member

    44A020E4-5586-4462-9356-9A7F97CFC3CA.jpeg 07F662F7-40A8-4FC3-A6F6-0A39ECA15230.jpeg I am 36
    Weight is about 180 currently
    Test was done two weeks after stopping pct.

    I got blood work done in 2016 but don’t have those results any longer. My test serum was just under 400 then. That’s all I remember from that test.

    Let me say I feel normal if that means anything.


    Any suggestions?
     
  2. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    I don’t see any LH or FSH values. You should wait longer after stopping pct to get bloods bc SERMs have a pretty long half life.
     
    Oldman. likes this.
  3. Eman

    Eman Member

    What is your baseline estradiol?

    How long after your last pin did you start pct?
     
  4. Oldman.

    Oldman. Member

    LH FSH were supposed to be there. I am contacting them about it today.
     
  5. Oldman.

    Oldman. Member

    I did a test p transition. So 38 days from last test e and 8 days from last test p pin

    No idea on baseline estradiol
    I am contacting the doctors office that ordered the last test to see if I can get them.
     
  6. Oldman.

    Oldman. Member

    and this is why pre cycle blood work is so important........
     
  7. G2Ready

    G2Ready Member

    I believe if you only used clomid during pct 2 weeks is fine for post pct bloods :)

    If you used nolvadex gotta go like 6weeks :(
     
  8. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    They both have pretty similar half lives.
     
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  9. G2Ready

    G2Ready Member

    Only when talking about complete termination....

    We are interested in the isomers clearance...
    the isomer we are interested in for clomid is Enclomiphene and has a half life of about 24Hrs... but the medication as a whole stays in much longer:)
     
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  10. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    Why are you only interested in the enclomiphene isomer and not the zuclomiphene isomer?
     
  11. G2Ready

    G2Ready Member

    Enclomiphene isomer, is the isomer men are interested in for Raising Lh & Fsh

    Zuclomiphene is the isomer that causes bad sides in men —-
    ^^ messes with our heads bro, by putting estrogen in our livers and brains:(

    ^^ that’s why we need a medicine that sperates the two:) ...

    androxal (—— supposed to be the “male” version:)
     
  12. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    Ok but you don’t see that as an overly simplistic and narrow minded viewpoint? You can’t dismiss something simply bc it causes sides you don’t want.

    For example, zuclomiphene can act as an estrogen antagonist for FSH. Zuclomiphene can act as a estrogen agonist for LH. Both of these actions can cause effects on the HPTA and affect true homeostasis. You cannot simply dismiss zuclomiphene’s effects for the simple fact that they matter.
     
  13. G2Ready

    G2Ready Member

    zuclomiphene is “selective”

    Enclomiphene is what raises LH and FSH in men... and is why we all want FDA approval for men...

    I’d be interested in any studies u have showing zuclomiphene by itself raising LH & FSH.... and further showing any effect on LH & FSH AFTER 2 weeks:)
     
  14. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    Limited applicability due to not being human and in vitro but I’m having trouble finding human studies at the moment.

    Estrogenic and Antiestrogenic Effects of Enclomiphene and Zuclomiphene on Gonadotropin Secretion by Ovine Pituitary Cells in Culture

    https://doi.org/10.1210/endo-112-2-442
    Published:

    01 February 1983
    Article history

    17β-Estradiol (E2) alters gonadotropin secretions in ovine pituitary cell cultures by 1) augmenting the LH response to LHRH and 2) inhibiting the basal secretion of FSH. These responses were used to study the estrogenic and antiestrogenic effects of enclomiphene, zuclomiphene, and their commercial mixture, clomid. In terms of the LH response to LHRH, Clomid and enclomiphene (10-6 M) acted as E2antagonists because they blocked the action of E2 (10-10 M). By themselves they did not alter the LHRH response. Previous studies using rat pituitary cultures showed opposite results, since both enclomiphene and Clomid acted as estrogens in rat cultures. Apparently, species differences are involved. One conclusion from these data, therefore, is that it would be unwise to predict how Clomid acts in any species without direct experimentation. Zuclomiphene (10-7–10-5 M) acted as a E2agonist, in terms of the LH response to LHRH, because it sensitized cultures to LHRH. Surprisingly, all of the clomiphenes, including zuclomiphene, acted primarily as E2 antagonists when FSH secretion was observed. At a concentration of 10-6 M, they blocked the inhibitory effects of E2 (10-10 M) on FSH secretion, but enclomiphene and Clomid also exhibited minor estrogenic action when administered alone. The clear but unexpected role of zuclomiphene as both E2 agonist (as measured by LH secretion) and antagonist (as measured by FSH secretion) suggests that zuclomiphene may be an especially useful compound for dissociating the effects of E2 on FSH and LH in vivo, at least in sheep. Of more theoretical interest is the fact that zuclomiphene can affect two E2-responsive systems oppositely. Both systems appear to reside in the same subset of pituitary cells.
     
  15. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    Clinically, tamoxifen and CC are two of the most commonly used SERMs, with the former popularized by use in breast cancer treatment protocols and the latter popularized by its initial development for triggering ovulation in women. CC exists as a racemic mixture of shorter acting enclomiphene (purely anti-estrogenic effects) and longer acting zuclomiphene (both estrogen agonist and antagonist effects) and exhibits a serum half-life of approximately 5 days.65

    Recovery of spermatogenesis following testosterone replacement therapy or anabolic-androgenic steroid use
     
  16. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    The commercially available form of clomiphene is the dihydrogen citrate salt (clomiphene citrate). It contains two stereoisomers: zu-clomiphene (38 percent) and en-clomiphene (62 percent), which were originally called the cis-isomer and trans-isomer, respectively. En-clomiphene is cleared rapidly, while zu-clomiphene has a long half-life [1]. The two clomiphene isomers have mixed estrogenic and antiestrogenic effects that vary among species.

    UpToDate
     
  17. Docd187123

    Docd187123 Member

    CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY
    Action
    clomid is a drug of considerable pharmacologic potency. With careful selection and proper management of the patient, CLOMID has been demonstrated to be a useful therapy for the anovulatory patient desiring pregnancy.
    clomiphene citrate is capable of interacting with estrogen-receptor-containing tissues, including the hypothalamus, pituitary, ovary, endometrium, vagina, and cervix. It may compete with estrogen for estrogen-receptor-binding sites and may delay replenishment of intracellular estrogen receptors. Clomiphene citrate initiates a series of endocrine events culminating in a preovulatory gonadotropin surge and subsequent follicular rupture. The first endocrine event in response to a course of clomiphene therapy is an increase in the release of pituitary gonadotropins. This initiates steroidogenesis and folliculogenesis, resulting in growth of the ovarian follicle and an increase in the circulating level of estradiol. Following ovulation, plasma progesterone and estradiol rise and fall as they would in a normal ovulatory cycle.
    Available data suggest that both the estrogenic and antiestrogenic properties of clomiphene may participate in the initiation of ovulation. The two clomiphene isomers have been found to have mixed estrogenic and antiestrogenic effects, which may vary from one species to another. Some data suggest that zuclomiphene has greater estrogenic activity than enclomiphene.

    Clomiphene citrate has no apparent progestational, androgenic, or antiandrogenic effects and does not appear to interfere with pituitary-adrenal or pituitary-thyroid function. Although there is no evidence of a “carryover effect” of CLOMID, spontaneous ovulatory menses have been noted in some patients after CLOMID therapy.
    Pharmacokinetics 14
    Based on early studies with
    readily absorbed orally in humans and excreted principally in the feces. Cumulative urinary and fecal excretion of the 14C averaged about 50% of the oral dose and 37% of an intravenous dose after 5 days. Mean urinary excretion was approximately 8% with fecal excretion of about 42%.
    Some 14C label was still present in the feces 6 weeks after administration. Subsequent single-dose studies in normal volunteers showed that zuclomiphene (cis) has a longer half-life than enclomiphene (trans). Detectable levels of zuclomiphene persisted for longer than a month in these subjects. This may be suggestive of stereo-specific enterohepatic recycling or sequestering of the zuclomiphene. Thus, it is possible that some active drug may remain in the body during early pregnancy in women who conceive in the menstrual cycle during CLOMID therapy

    https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2017/016131s028lbl.pdf
     
  18. G2Ready

    G2Ready Member

    The big thing is after 6 week trial the ratio

    Was like 21:1
     
  19. G2Ready

    G2Ready Member

    ^^^ I know I was grasping at straws when I linked excel male, and iron mag

    Lol
     
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