prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attached)

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by wipeoutlol, Apr 30, 2009.

  1. wipeoutlol

    wipeoutlol Junior Member

    Due to some symptoms of Erectile Dysfunction, minimal progress at the gym and some fatigue, I went to an endocrinologist who had me take a lab with the following lab reports:

    This was before ANY TRT:

    testosterone, TOTAL.....................476.......(250-1100 ng/dL)
    TESTOSTERONE, FREE.......................69.5......(46.0-224.0 pg/mL)
    TESTOSTERONE, BIOAVAILABLE..........139.9.....(110-575.0) ng/dL
    SHBG.............................................. 30..........(7-49 nmol/L)
    ALBUMIN, SERUM..............................4.4..........(3 .6-5.1 g/dL)
    THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBDS..........<10..........(<35 IU/mL)
    **FSH (labeled OUT OF RANGE).....1.1L..........(1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
    LH................................................ .2.8..........(1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
    prolactin......................................6.7 ..........(2.0-18.0 ng/mL)
    T-4, FREE........................................1.1... .......(0.8-1.8 ng/dL)
    TSH, 3rd GENERATION.......................1.69............. ..(0.40-4.50 mIU/L)

    THYROGLOBULIN PANEL (this really needed? if so ill post)


    According to the above results, and the endo's conclusion as to my results being fine, I decided to get a second opinion.

    I went to a urologist, he looked at my results, and before I even said anything about TRT, he said I could benefit from TRT. So he put me on 400mg Test Cypionate once every 3 weeks. I felt a little better with some better erections and such but had a rollercoaster due to the infrequent shots. After 3 months of that he stopped me for 6 weeks and took minimal blood results with the following results (6 weeks off of TRT):

    AFTER 3 months of TRT, followed by 6 weeks of being clean then taking blood work:

    TOTAL TESTOSTERONE........384......(250-1100 ng/dL)
    FREE TESTOSTERONE(%)......1.49....(1.50-2.20%)
    FREE TESTOSTERONE...........57.2....(35.0-155.0 pg/mL)

    Since then I convinced him to give me 400mg shots every 2 weeks for about 1.5 months, and I told him to give 600mg shots every 2 weeks a try for another 1.5 months (in hoped of being in the high quartile). and for the last month of april, I told him im sick of paying so much in doctors visits and prescribe it to me. So now I'm shooting up myself 300mg a week.

    NOW. My main concern. I am 24 years old and I want to have 5 kids still within the next 3-4 years. I hear over and over again that TRT makes you infertile/sterile. That scares the shit out of me.

    Should I sacrifice feeling good and finally have some nice erections without the use of pills for a couple years, which im leaning towards doing? Or is there an alternative, some way that I can keep my fertility while undergoing TRT therapy?

    As of right now im injecting 300mg test cyp every week (no other meds but test cyp). My urologist doesnt do much bloodwork to see how its doing. I scheduled another appointment with an endocrinologist tomorrow to see what she has to say about the whole situation. But I know there are some very experienced people on here.

    I WANT MY FERTILITY.

    Please help,

    Thanks.
     
  2. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    You might want to start by getting a real doctor. Another idiotic urologist.... Can some PLEASE EXPLAIN THE LOGID. WTF ARE THey always prescribing large doeses of test once a month. Is this so as not to disrupt the HPtA??? I find it pretty scary that these docs are the experts on prostate cancer.....

    You need to find a hormone doc and quick. Your only chance at having kids is getting off the test and restart with an hcg shot. Perhaps even a clomid pct real quick. The endo was right. You WERE fine. You probably are not anymore. It only takes a couple of months at 300 plus milligrams test a week to totally shut down sperm production. You have probably already jeopardized a lot. Forget the docs all together for now. Just stop. Sperm are ninety days in the making. And thats just long enough to sputter out a few quasi morphs....

    In Summary, YOU AINT HAVIN NO KIDS ON TEST......



     
  3. wipeoutlol

    wipeoutlol Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    well thats not really a very encouraging answer... I dont even know what clomid is, and I heard hcg is obscenely expensive (like almost $2000)

    If I stop all together, will it go back to normal eventually?
     
  4. barcafan

    barcafan Banned

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    hcg isn't very expensive.

    Don't worry, just take the advice.
     
  5. Bridger

    Bridger Member

  6. wipeoutlol

    wipeoutlol Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    it helped my erectile dysfunction going up to 300mg/week though

    I just got bloodwork done 2 days after my last 300mg inj so I'll see where that puts me...

    Do Steroid users cycle in order to stay fertile or what? And how long do they stay off?

    Is there a way to jump 300-600 in natural testosterone production so I dont have to do TRT and lose fertility?
     
  7. xray9

    xray9 Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    Your inital lab results were well within normal ranges. You should not have used testosterone at such a young age for erectile dysfunction. All is not lost however. It's a fairly typical phenomenon among AAS users. If you stop using T altogether, in a few months your HPGA will return to normal. To speed up the process you can use pct (Post Cycle Therapy). While there are different philosophies regarding PCT. The general consensus is to use hcg for a couple of weeks followed by clomid for a couple of weeks. HCG acts like LH (which your pituitary is no longer making) to signal the testes to regrow Leydig cells and produce testosterone. The Clomid signals your pituitary to produce LH.

    PCT attempts to jumpstart your gonads / HPGA. However, for it to function on its own, and for you to be fertile, you have to refrain from using all AAS, testosterone, and ancillaries. The introduction of anything exogenously causes the body to compensate.

    There is a wealth of information on this forum. I suggest you search for and read topics like PCT, HCG, Clomid etc.

    You may want to use HCG until your testosterone levels are back to normal. And then use a bit of Clomid. This is something to work with your endocrinologist about.
     
  8. wipeoutlol

    wipeoutlol Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    Thank you very much for your response... Now I have to find a pharmacy that actually has HCG. Anyone know how much it typically costs w/ and w/out insurance?

    I'm planning on taking one more week of this testosterone until I can get a hold of this HCG and stopping cold turkey (endo suggested weaning off it I heard thats like making yourself feel like crap over and over)
     
  9. s0b

    s0b Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    Did using testo at those levels do anything for you energywise or regarding mental clarity and concentration??

    Try searching deeper on the reasons why you have erectile dysfunction. Check lifestyle, stress, nutrition, exercise, sleep. Testo levels were ok, just fairly low, not even close to borderline low so you could probably have other (most possibly) reasons for having such a low fsh/lh output (lh is useless since its pulsatile nature is so unconstant). Check pituitary, neurotransmitters and other hormones too. What about hormones like cortisol (saliva/urine levels), DHEA and so on, free t3 and others???

    With 475 ng/dl testosterone you should be able to pump out enough iron to bult masculature, and why the free hormone is so low i dont understand it should be higher. It seems that SHBG and albumin is not that bad. Something else is wrong. Probably some stress hormones are messed up, along with neurotransmitters and others. Have you used any drugs in the past or suffered from anything??

    Could also be some pituitary problem(if not higher like GnRh downregulation) changing the rhythm of testosterone output or feedback or many other conditions, but you should be able to find out whats going on!!

    Take care
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2009
  10. s0b

    s0b Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    Strange however that your prolactin level is normal.. Dont know, i would assume mostly pituitary reasons if GnRH output is ok in abudancy frequency and rhythm
     
  11. wipeoutlol

    wipeoutlol Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    Thanks for your response.

    I'm not sure, I just got more blood work done while im on TRT, waiting on those results. But I do have a history of drug abuse. It was for only 1 or 2 years. I did a lot of Ecstacy, cocaine and such within a year. I still smoke some marijuana every now and then though and have smoked marijuana for about 8 years. Quit for a little over a year in between though.

    I do remember a little bit of problem maintaining a strong erection when I was a bit younger, maybe even a bit before I started into the drugs

    I did notice my available T was low compared to my free T...

    I've been on 600mg cypionate inj every 2 weeks for about 3 months... and 300mg cypionate inj every week for 3 weeks now...

    I'm going to go one more week or two of 300mg/week injections until I get get my hands on a good supply of hcg, clomid and Nolvidex.... I've been reading around and those seem to be the 3 main ingredients to a pct/reset and hope it works..... Hopefully I get get higher to my pre-TRT levels that would be great, but I'll be just as happy back to my pre-TRT levels alone.

    As far as the PCT/reset, I've been reading SO MANY different ways of doing it, that it is confusing. My endo only suggests clomid for 5 days in a row after I'm completely off. She only prescribed me 10 pills for some reason. But I've been reading Clomid/Nolvidex ED for 3 weeks is the way to go. Still not too clear on the frequency of HCG yet though, and whether I should start it before I stop the injections.

    Thanks, and I appreciate any more thoughts/advice anyone may have
     
  12. wipeoutlol

    wipeoutlol Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    I'm also reluctant to use hcg since I dont want to promote primaly hypo...

    And also can someone explain to me why some people use HCG first to stimulate testes to grow first instead of just jumping right into clomid/Nolvidex and go right to the source and get the pituitary to do what the HCG would do?

    Thanks
     
  13. wipeoutlol

    wipeoutlol Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    ^ I meant "Primary Hypo" ... Not sure how to edit posts...

    And to answer your questions,the T shots didnt do much for concentration or energy.... If anything it felt I was more tired/lazy... Didnt work out as much as before I got on TRT
     
  14. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac


    You can do either or. Its nice to be able to stimulate the boys with a little HCG to kick things back off. You have probably shut them down pretty good. I am finding that apparently size and firmness are not the best indicators of what "stage of sleep" you have put them in. HCG in its self will stimulate testosterone to a pretty good degree. As far as quitting cold turkey, just quit. Weaning is not necessary. With docs, especially endocrinologists, you are probably dealing with a pencil head that has no real world self experience. You will not notice the decline in test just sitting around. Especially considering the symptoms you are complaining of anyway. As far as stimulating everything else "pct" style. Just go with some clomid. I have heard to start at 150mgs/day then go 100 next two weeks and then 50/day for a fourth week should do ya fine. CLomid IS the preferred startup serm. You asked about stimulating test without testosterone. I have seen posts where people have moved test from 300 to 600 by using arimidex alone. You might try that. This should also be used with any future attempts at HRT. The Arimidex will stop the E2 from forming. E2 can TOTALLY negate the effects from the testosterone that you are looking for, and thus, cause you to need too much. Dont start clomid until after last hcg shot. As far as that goes, get your hands on a 5000iu ampule and start with a 2500iu shot. Then go 500ius for the next five doeses every 4-5 days.

    Is your doctor going to write you a script for HCG?
     
  15. wipeoutlol

    wipeoutlol Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac


    Ill keep that in mind next time about Arimidex...

    Yeah she is going to write me a script. How much for? No idea. And she only prescribed me 10 50mg Clomid pills total for a month... How do I convince her to prescribe me much more than that, and to prescribe me Nolvidex without offending them by making it sound like I'm not taking their advice and trying to handle it a different way?

    Thanks
     
  16. wipeoutlol

    wipeoutlol Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    Ok she prescribed me hcg 250IU 2x a week the day before and 2 days before injection...

    Then I think she wants me to keep doing it after I'm off of TRT... instead of using clomid.... and she shot down the idea of nolvadex
     
  17. JanSz

    JanSz Junior Member

    Re: prescribed TRT therapy for 8 months. Voluntarily D/C'ng for fertility (labs attac

    Use these needles for Testosterone and hcg injections:
    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b at Hocks.Com
    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $27.80
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Do Test and HCG on one day, next day free of shots.
    Rinse and repeat.
    This is EOD (EveryOtherDay) schedule

    Use 200mg/mL testosterone

    size of shots

    T-shot=0.2cc=20units=40mg
    HCG-shot=250iu

    do not use any arimidex or any other aromatase inhibitors

    Buy (do not use it)
    LiquiDex - LiquiDex 30ml @ 1mg/ml

    AG-Guys & Affiliates :: AIs :: LiquiDex
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    After you are 3 monts on this procedure, go to Quest Diagnostics, draw blood at Quest,
    on the day of the (T + HCG) shots, before shots.

    do these tests (at Quest)

    42 DHEA Sulfate 402X
    46 Progesterone, LC/MS/MS 17183X
    47 Pregnenolone, LC/MS/MS (31493X) 28373P
    48 Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
    50 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS) Code: 14966X
    51 Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X) 12997N
    --------------------------------

    Your goals may be similar to mine:

    My own Goals
    DHEAs(500-640)mcg/dL------------------major player, 95% time overlooked
    Progesterone(0.9-1.2)ng/mL
    Pregnenolone(> 100ng/dL)
    Estradiol, Ultrasensitive(25-29)pg/mL
    Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
    do not use Anastrozole if possible or minimize its use
    BATest(342, 460-575)ng/dL------------stay around 342 if you need AI to control E2
    DHT(60-90)ng/dL
    RT3 in lower half of range
    FreeT3~400pg/dL
    Body temperature (97.8 - 98.2F) (36.56 - 36.78C); (36.6-37C)(97.9-98.6F)
    ========================================================================

    If you are able, do these additional tests:


    x Hematocrit
    7 Iodine Panel - (2503)
    8 Selenium
    9 Copper, serum
    10 Zinc

    37 IGF Binding protein-3
    38 igf-1
    39 Aldosterone
    40 Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin) (37371X)
    41 Cortisol AM/PM

    27 t3, Total (859X)
    28 T4, Total (Thyroxine)
    29 T3, Free
    30 T4,Free
    31 T3, Reverse (967X)
    32 Ultrasensitive TSH
    33 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)

    ===================================================================