Private Sources and Why They Aren't the Answer

Discussion in 'Steroid Underground' started by CensoredBoardsSuck, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. There's been a lot of interest in private sources lately, especially from new members who believe private sources have something public sources don't. The belief that private sources produce higher quality products because they have special access to the best Chinese raw steroid powder suppliers is widespread, but unsupported. And the truth is, nothing could be further from the truth. But people tend to want that which they cannot have. Believing the grass is always greener on the other side is human nature.

    When Stretch started Biologic, he used the brilliant marketing strategy of only opening to new customers every few months. This strategy drove interest in Bio through the roof. It became like Studio 54 where everybody wanted in but only the lucky few made it. Those that did get in were just happy to be there, and not wanting to jeopardize their membership in an exclusive club, tended to remain silent when they encountered problems.

    Private sources do offer some advantages over public sources - things like better and more personalized service, less likely to be overwhelmed by sales volume provided they limit the number of customers and don't succumb to greed, and possibly less chance of getting scammed outright, although there are still no guarantees that won't happen. What private sources don't have is better quality gear than established public sources. Private sources are small operations that lack the means to test their raw powders and finished product. The gear is usually made in a kitchen by an amateur without training in chemistry or sterility. But the biggest problem with private sources is that when they have problems such as underdosed or bunk gear, the complaints are never aired in public. This makes it difficult for prospective customers to properly evaluate the source.

    Big public sources are in a far better position than private sources to influence Chinese suppliers to provide high quality raws simply because of the large quantities they purchase. They have the means to test the raws, but unfortunately, that's an area that still needs improvement. And they are better equipped to handle larger sales volume without letting it affect product quality. But the biggest advantage public sources offer customers is that their complaints are posted openly.

    None of this is to say that public sources are inherently better than private sources. But just because a source is private doesn't mean the quality of their product is superior, either. There are no magic sources with special access to raw powder. At the end of the day, both public and private sources are selling exactly same thing - UGL quality gear.

    The Steroid Underground's mission is to educate members about the steroid black market, and provide an uncensored forum where members can discuss sources. What it was never meant to be is an AAS sales platform. There has been an improvement recently in that public sourcing has declined and is being discouraged by members. Unfortunately, this has had the unfortunate effect of increasing the number of private and member sources.

    The increasing frequency with which private sources are operating on Meso is becoming a problem and it's hurting the credibility of the board. Meso is about full disclosure. But private sources, by their very nature, cannot be discussed openly, and their presence is undermining the purpose of the forum. Even when these private sources are openly discussed, especially when the private sources is a member, their customers are usually friends with them and very reluctant to criticize them.

    Personally, I don't have a problem with members using private sources. What members do is their own business. But anyone that professes to care about the credibility of this forum should be very concerned that there are more and more secret/private sources setting up shop here that can't be discussed. We've done a good job moving Meso away from being a public sourcing forum, while still being able to discuss our experiences with sources. But we need to do a better job with the private and member sources. If Meso is to remain credible, then private, and particularly member sourcing must be discouraged. A good place to start is by encouraging new members to stop chasing phantoms; to teach them that private sources aren't necessarily the best sources, or even good sources. They're just sources that cannot be openly discussed, and as such, have no business soliciting on Meso. The best means of ensuring quality from any source is by actively encouraging sources to test their product, not turning to private sources that rely on subjective reports. Either Meso is going to be a forum for members to OPENLY discuss their experience with ALL sources or it isn't, It's in the members hands to decide.

    Regards

    CBS
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2015
  2. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

     
  3. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    ,,,...
     
  4. That's what I thought too.
     
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  5. Excellent post, CBS.

    This is an important topic that needs to be discussed, especially member sourcing. I have stated before that private sources aren't guaranteed to be any better in terms of product quality than open labs unless their products are being tested, which is most likely not happening.

    The notion that private labs are better than open labs when it comes to product quality is a myth. Is there any proof for this? Making a blanket statement like this absent of any evidence isn't up to par with the standards of Meso. It shows a lack of critical thinking.

    A common defense of the idea that 'private = better' that I see posted on the forums is that some feel that servicing a smaller clientele equates to a better quality product, since the source doesn't have to cut corners to meet demand.

    This might be true for other businesses, but as @Millard Baker pointed out, the manufacturing process isn't usually the reason why UGL's send out poor products, it's their lack of testing.

    Member sourcing....I've been outspoken about this issue. I hate it. It sucks. It makes all of us look bad.

    It amazes me that members are so eager to support or use these guys. You are all members of this board, and if you care about this board you should also care about its integrity. I absolutely agree that this ridiculous double standard does immense harm to the credibility and integrity of Meso.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2015
  6. XNooBX

    XNooBX Member

    I have to agree with everything CBS has to say. I have also been noticing what appears to be less public sources visible on Meso and more underhanded practices going on such as Auctions, and Members who have all of a sudden have a stake in a private lab. I don't think it makes a difference wether you buy from a private source or a public source, everyone needs to realize its all done by the same unscrupulous money hungry people. My sources for me personally are private, but do I trust them 100%? Hell no I don't! There are some perks to having a private source domestically compared to having to order from some source that takes 3 to 4 weeks to get you your gear to you because they are overseas, but honestly thats it! Wether they are private or public they don't care about your health, they don't care about the science in bodybuilding or sports for that matter all they are concerned about is the almighty dollar. Whoever you decide to order from wether public, private or some gymrat, just make sure you understand there is no guarantee on quality or anything else because of a conceived perception that one is better than the other, just be careful guys. And if your real lucky you can fill your Test at the pharmacy then you don't have to worry about it..
     
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  7. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    GOT THAT RIGHT MATE!

    I agree, if one was to compare WELL ESTABLISHED Public S to WELL ESTABLISHED Private Sources, I'd suggest the PRIVATE SOURCE would be much more likely to deliver a quality product on a consistent basis, especially for those who recently became a new member.
    In many respects that's correct IMO, but then again bc well established Private Souces are often "responsible" for delivering a quality product to higher end BB, some with a legitimate desire to become Pro's over time these fellas learn what the production entails including some of the less important details such as sterility, contaminants, and why it's best NOT to use GrandMa's cast iron kitchen supplies :)
    ON SPOT MATE

    I probably differ with several in this regard bc why should Meso not be used as a source board of sorts? I mean where else can mates acquire unadultered and unbiased information (at least that's the objective of most members) on a source of particular interest? No other forum does what Millard has enabled on Meso, more specifically the open vetting of sources! It's absolutely fantastic and should be taken advantage of by members and sources alike.

    However the reason Meso has not become a source board per say is the number of NEWLY formed UGLs approximates zippo. They all depart bc they are selling JUNK, no doubt about it, IMO.

    Moreover I have no problem with private or public sources using Meso as a sales platform providing it's done on an overt basis and those involved understand ALL sources, whether private or public must play by the same standards.
    And that's the reason private sources have found a niche on Meso, IMO
    However members must also remember bc they are private and "confidential" what you gonna do when shit hits the fan?

    As an aside, even though I've agreed to do this previously, I will no longer test private source gear, UNLESS they are willing to have others openly view their analyses on Meso. Otherwise I'm sorry bc the notion of NOT openly posting results conflicts with the primary objective of AAS testing, informing other members of the particular products quality!
    (This obviously would exclude existing samples which have completed MS yet are pending the HPLCs)
    Regards
    JIM
     
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  8. Burrr

    Burrr Member AnabolicLab.com Supporter

    PRivate or public, big or small, they all seem to be hit or miss. Right now I'm having good luck with a small public source.
    I'm constantly looking for my next src, for when my current guy goes down hill or closes shop.
    I've got a small list of src's on standby for when the time comes.
     
  9. johnnyBALLZ

    johnnyBALLZ Member

    I agree with most of your post CBS, not all of it though.. I would add there are no real private sources on this board and yes, the reason most say they're private or try to come off as such is mostly a marketing ploy. Trying to make you feel like you're in some type of special group and should be grateful, this isn't really the case.. Some don't accept everyone because they are truly concerned about security and some pretend that's why they're "publicly private" and not private.

    I'll expand on other points later, glad you brought this up..
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2015
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  10. DragonFlames

    DragonFlames Member

    Great post.
     
  11. pumpingiron22

    pumpingiron22 Member AnabolicLab.com Supporter

     
  12. Bullyboss

    Bullyboss Member

    Excellent post CBS.
     
  13. hotdog23

    hotdog23 Member

    I agree with a lot of the OP, but by that logic naps is, or should be the best source, and we know that's not true. So are we just Fffed ? Is there no hope for UG gear? Probably not IMO
     
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  14. Fckit

    Fckit Member

    Unfortunately, there are a lot of moderated forums out there that create many ignorant customers that don't even know what they should be expecting from gear (much less the importance of testing). As long as the masses aren't demanding better standards, why supply better quality? Simple economics... Maximize profits when demand is high among the uneducated masses.

    That, in part, is why I prefer a smaller, private lab. I know much of their customer base is educated and, although issues still arise, I have more faith they will be handled properly. I do believe in full disclosure, however - private or public. The security issue is also of utmost importance to me, and I know the chance of a referral for some of the jackasses we see on here on a daily basis are minimized. It gives me a more warm and cozy feeling.

    Is it an issue on Meso? It could be, but the members I see selling post openly about it. People just have to hold all labs accountable, regardless if public or private.
     
  15. Bighead101

    Bighead101 Member

    Well said. I personally have had better luck with private sources then public.
     
    anarchyxl likes this.

  16. Since public and private sources have access to the same raw suppliers, the only way either could deliver a quality product on a consistent basis is by first testing the raws. Unfortunately, I don't know of any UGL - public or private - that is doing that at the moment.



    Admittedly, I don't know what quality of gear IFBB pros are using but I suspect the upper echelon and Olympia contenders aren't using ANY UGL grade gear for which there's a pharm grade equivalent.

    I do have some firsthand knowledge of MLB and all the sources that I'm aware of were supplying trainers and players with nothing but pharm grade products. I would assume the NFL and others are using same. Professional trainers are averse to risking the health of $10+ million dollar a year investments by using products of dubious quality.

    Underground gear is just that - underground gear - and it always will be. Its quality is subject to the same forces that effect the quality of any other drug that's sold on the street. No matter how good it is, it will never approach the quality of pharm grade drugs and its consistency will always be in question.



    I've said before that I don't have an issue with sources that maintain a presence on Meso - not to actively push sales but to answer member's questions. I don't believe there should be a place on Meso for start-up bathtub labs, and no one should even be entertaining the idea of using them. The risk of members being scammed by them is extreme.



    The problem with private sources is that, by definition, they aren't overt, they're covert. And for that reason they're not open to public scrutiny.

    The bigger issue is when members are sourcing - whether privately, or even as Johnny mentioned, semi-privately - it adversely affects Meso's credibility. The number one complaint about Meso on other forums is that we bash other sources in order to force members to buy from our private sources. Until recently at least, that criticism could be safely rejected because it wasn't true. Is it still untrue?

    I don't believe it's gotten to the point that it's had an effect on how we treat public sources but the appearance of a conflict is certainly there. And there's no denying that a double standard exists, with member sources getting far more leeway that public sources.


    I'm in full agreement with you on this. As we've seen recently, not giving members a chance to see the analysis allows sources to reject bad HPLCs because they don't like the result, while they continue to sell the product in question because "everyone that's used it says it's fire." It's funny because when those bad HPLCs do get posted in the open, the reports of fire gear tend to vanish into thin air.
     
  17. Voltrader

    Voltrader Member

    Next level of the process I guess. No SCOC which was in place would of not let these member sources operate. So now what's the next step in the evolution I don't line the member source auction stuff either. I do like my established private source that I have been using for over a year now with no complaints. It even has labmax and reviews in the open at first I didn't like but if this is a review board which is where I think the intention is public and private are open for scrutiny here. What to do about outwardly not so incospous .marketing tactics from not so private sources.....I think he heard a mouthful. I am curious to still what goes on behind the scenes in the PM world these days. IDK nobody PMs me offering gear'.
     
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  18. Voltrader

    Voltrader Member

    Oh did I mention my private source is not so private anymore. I found it much more comforting when it was just a handful of guys I knew running it. I do have to wonder where do IFBB pros get tren it would be a ugl right there is no pharm.
     
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  19. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    Oh crap CBS we fully agreed on 9 out of 11 and partially
    agreed on the remaining 2 points of contention.

    :)
    Jim
     
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  20. Maybe even 11/11.:eek:

    I do believe established sources are less likely to step on the raws. However the chance of getting better than 90% raws from the Chinese is still slim to none. But I think you agree with that too.

    And I also agree that IFBB pros will use UGL drugs when a pharm grade option is unavailable.
     
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