Prohormone FAQs / Classification Guide / Information

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by Voodoo, Mar 15, 2008.

  1. #1

    Voodoo Junior Member

    What a novel concept!

    I'm personally growing tired of reading: this is my first post I'm going to run superdrol with phera for 10 weeks straight and then bridge it into injecting gasoline and tonic water. So I figured I would write a newbie FAQ. Please add to this, or hell sticky it if you should so desire.

    Since someone else posted part, I figured I would post the entire thing.

    Pro Hormone FAQ.
    Please read before posting.

    Statement 1: Hey guys! I'm a 19 year old guy who cant put on weight....

    Stop. Notice your age. In mathematical terms it looks like this:
    19 < 21 = no ph's
    Eat more. Sleep More. You will be able to gain weight. But phs may dramatically affect your body's ability to produce and utilize testosterone in the future.

    Statement 2: So is it cool to stack superdrol, pheraplex and trenadrol as my first stack?
    Ok that was actually more of a question, but the answer is still no with a side of possibly. Generally its better to try running a non methylated prohormones (which you can ask about which are available at the time on the forum) first, and then step up to the methylated compounds second, due to the fact they're harder on the body/liver than the non methyls. "Bridging" methyls (running one into the other) is in a quick phrase, somewhat nuts. Its an all out assault thats usually attempted by someone with some decent ph experience under his belt. In my opinion you shouldn't run two methyls at one time, its a great way to kill off your liver.

    Statement 3: How do I know whats a prohormone and whats a testosterone booster?

    Hpro has done the work for you. Heres his ph list.

    Statement 4: If I take more of these than recommended will I have a heart attack?
    Probably not, however I always suggest people start small and work up to a level that they feel comfortable with. You've got your whole life to push a little harder.

    Statement 5: Whats pct?

    Its a necessary part of hormone manipulation, allowing your body to return to its normal levels. Dinoiii wrote a great series of really in depth articles about Post Cycle Therapy. While your eyes are going to glaze over, its a good read. I suggest taking notes on products he likes. The pct section is a great place to get ideas on what might work for you as well as ask questions. Notice how no where in this statement do I recommend that SERM use is mandatory in PCT....

    Statement 6: Will this show up in a drug test?
    Yes and no. If you're being tested for anabolic steroids, then yes, they will show up. If you're being drug tested for a job odds are they're looking for narcotics, hallucinogens, and most importantly weed.

    Statement 7: How much/What do I have to eat?

    Everyone is different. Theres a section called diet. Post there.

    Statement 8: I'm going to go out partying with my friends and knock back a few. Is it cool to drink on these?

    No. If you're running a methylated cycle you liver is already taking a pretty good stress load from breaking that down, adding alcohol (and this is talking form personal experience) will make you liver swell, and its REALLY uncomfortable, as well as EXTREMELY bad for you. Not to mention the fact that alcohol basically stops protein synthesis entirely, which negates even taking the ph's in the first place. Non methyl cycles are easier on the liver, but again, whats the point of taking them if you wanna go party? Hell in my own ph use I wont even take Tylenol on cycle cause I'm so paranoid now.

    Statement 9: So I finished my cycle, can I start one tomorrow?

    No, minimum time frame between cycles: Cycle + Pct + "Normalization Period" = Ready for your next cycle. Voo, what the hell is a normalization period? I call it that cause your body needs to get back to where it was hormonally before you overloaded it with pro hormones on cycle and then with anti estrogens in pct. Your body will also use this period of time to do a little house cleaning on your cell receptors in your body making the next cycle as effective as the last one. I like see the "NP" at least as long in length as pct. Usually I wait about a month. So my personal normal setup would look something like this: 6 week cycle + 4 week pct + 4-6 week normalization period.

    Statement 10: I'm looking for a lot of growth in a short amount of time, can I take twice the dosage and feel twice the effects?

    Two part answer. You could take twice the dosage, in theory but depending on the product that might just land you in the hospital. The effects WILL NOT double if you double the dose, you reach a point of diminishing returns where your body literally cannot process the amount of material you've ingested. Most likely your sides will double, meaning you'll earn a neato nickname like "pizza face" or "michellin man" from increased skin oil or water retention respectively. For a first time out I always recommend reading the back of the bottle and sticking to those parameters. oh, and always take them with food, the absorb better, and you won't get the dry, dusty, terrible tasting ph burps...

    Statement 11: Voodoo, you're kind of a dick.
    Yeah, but I grow on you and eventually I'm an indispensable part of your daily life. ;)

    Prohormone "Traits"

    The difference between "wet" and "dry" steroids/phs is water retention. Water retention is caused by estrogen through aromatase.

    Wikipedia: Aromatase is an enzyme of the cytochrome P450 superfamily (EC, whose function is to aromatize androgens (that is, to selectively increase their aromaticity), producing estrogens. As such, it is an important factor in sexual development.

    Effectively: Aromatase is when excess testosterone converts to estrogen.

    M1T (and subsequent legal variants/clones)


    M1T(and legal clones)

    On the strength category there are probably more, but from what I hear those are the biggies.

    Prohormone Classification

    Steroids are classified under 2 categories. Class I has a strong binding to the androgen receptor. Class II does not bind to the androgen receptors, rather it works through other means in the body.

    Simply put:
    Class I = binds to androgen receptor
    Class II = does not.

    These prohormones classifications are based on thier steroid counterparts. If there are any revisions needed PLEASE message me.
    Class I
    Boldenone based phs - 1,4AD & Bold
    Progestin based phs - (similar to trenbolone) - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
    Dienolone based phs - (again similar to tren) - Mdien
    Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based phs - Epithio & Clones (Havoc/Epistane/so on so forth)
    Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT (Madol) based phs - pheraplex & clones
    DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) based phs - M5AA

    Class II
    masteron (Dromostanolone) based phs - Superdrol & Clones
    oral turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone) based phs - Halodrol & Clones
    dianabol (methandrostenolone) based phs - M1,4ADD, M1T, 1-T, Methyl XT
    Winstrol (stanozolol) based phs - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
    Furazabol (miotolan) based phs - Furazadrol etc
    Progesterone based phs - Revolt, Propadrol, Max LMG
    Clostebol based phs - Chlorodrol, Oxyguno

    Not Prohormones...

    AMS's products - test boosters
    Testabolan is not a prohormone, it is an ecdysterone, tribulus, oglio peptide product.
    Superdrol NG - Prasterone = DHEA, Methyl Xanthine = Caffine, Aprodine HCL = Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, ATD - test booster/aromatase inhibitor

    I would like to add that Eyayo showed me that Mass Tabs is a prosteroid - 2a, 17a-dimethyl 17b-hydroxy 5a-androstan-1-ene-3-one
    however since its close to about 3-4 steroids/other prohormone compounds out there, I cant classify it. I would guess its a class 2 though.

    If you plan on stacking two prohormones at the same time, the best combinations are class I mixed with a class II. For example SD/Bold, Halo/Tren, M1T/Prop, and so on..

    Here's why, effectively when you take a class 1/class 1 stack, you're theoretically limiting your body's ability to suck up the little steroid molecules you're pumping into it. Think of it like a burger joint parking lot at lunchtime. There are no parking spots available, and you're stuck lying in wait for a spot to open up.

    However, with a class 1/class 2 combination while one pro hormone floats around binding to the androgen receptor, the other little guy is busy attaching itself to other parts of the body to encourage growth.

    Want to learn more about steroid classifications? Mesomorphosis has a great steroid profiles page.
  2. #2

    Whynot? Junior Member

    Good post thanks for taking the time.

    so im 19 well closer to 20 and half way through an epidrol cycle 40mg ED 6 weeks. diet is nailed as is training.
    I thought a PH would of been safer than a cycle of D-bol or straight test so went for it.

    i have my pct planned and am running supps for my liver ATM

    anything else i can do to minimize the risk.

    probally your worst case but i dont have regrets.

  3. #3

    Voodoo Junior Member

    The biggest fears are bone plates closing as well as your hormones havent fnished settling naturally so they could come up higher or lower on the final resting place. My personal favorie pct is 6-bromo with a test booster and indole 3 carbinole for estrogen channeling.
  4. #4

    Whynot? Junior Member

    OK pct is
    DAY 1 60MG nolva

    then CISSUS-Drol and CEE throughout PCT
    keeping eating and training in check

    cissus drol- 375 mg Ketosterones Extract from Cissus Quadranglaris, DVTHF, Forsklin Extracts, 6-Bromodione

    any good?.

    what is indole 3 carbinole as well?
  5. #5

    juggernaught Junior Member

    good post voodoo, nery informative and nice layout, this and the experiance Rpmjr has posted will help with all the questions on this subject lately. thanks to you both.
  6. #6

    Reinheart Member

    Very good post! Sticky please! =)
  7. #7

    Voodoo Junior Member

    Thank you Dinoiii:

    SAMe (S-adenosyl-methionine)

    When the liver is so overwhelmed by toxins it cannot produce enough glutathione, part of the concentration burden falls to SAMe, which is a necessary component of glutathiones creation. Not coincidentally, the concentration of SAMe in the liver is one of the highest in the body.

    Based on published clinical trials, elevating SAMe levels can have a beneficial effect on many conditions. As a preventative agent, SAMe is so powerful that it can reverse the effects of chemicals and alcohol as they occur (5). Studies also show that low SAMe levels create a toxic environment that can increase liver cancer risk(6).

    Research has shown that SAMe can prevent and, if discovered early enough, even reverse this condition. There was a rodent study published in Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology, SAMe completely prevented fatty liver when given at the same time as alcohol. Of course, the dosages need to be adjusted for volume of distribution variations (7). Additionally, it is a worthwhile mention that SAMe therapy has also gained success against the battle with cholestasis a potential beginning to the more fatal cascade that is the broad spectrum of biliary disorders.

    Indole-3-Carbinol (I3C)

    EVIDENCE-BASED EFFICACY: I have written extensively in various posts on my support of this compound versus its DIM metabolite as well as any other compound in the post-cycle realm from the category of dietary supplement. Perhaps the single-most important mechanism of action of I3C is modulating estrogen metabolism. Thats right, tell your friends ALL ESTROGEN IS NOT CREATED EQUAL. Estrogen receptors are located on the surface of virtually every type of tissue in the human body. Guys, you too, are not off the hook as this applies to you as well.

    The body modifies (metabolizes) estrogens through two mutually exclusive pathways, which lead to compounds with dramatically different biological activities. Estradiol is the primary estrogen in circulation (as the example used above in Diversification Model) and one of the most active. It is metabolized to a number of other chemicals, all with some degree of estrogenic activity.

    Key here, are the enzymes 2-hydroxylase and 16-alpha-hydroxylase. Several years ago, scientists hypothesized that a preference towards the 2-hydroxylase pathway and the subsequent generation of 2-hydroxyestrone (2-OHE1), results in less toxic metabolites in the circulation, which was subsequently gone on to support a decreased number of breast cancer outcomes if this were the dominant pathway (later, this proved true for prostate cancer as well). It was also around that same time that the hypothesis of greater estrogenic metabolism via the 16-alpha-hydroxylase enzyme would yield greater amounts of the more potent 16-alpha-hydroxyestrone (16alpha-OHE1) and a larger number of estrogen-dependent cancers would likely be the result.

    Summary of ORDET study of 2000 (always nice fancy acronyms)
    Participants: 10,000 Italian women
    Duration: > 5 years
    Measured Items: Diet, other breast cancer risks
    Findings: Increased level 2-OHE1:16alpha-OHE1 at beginning of study associated with less risk of breast cancer development.

    This simply set precedent, mind you although there is a 1% risk for men to develop breast cancer, posting this study is merely the landmark to establish the importance of greater 2-OHE1:16alpha-OHE1 ratios being desired for decreased estrogen-sensitive cancer risk. This is very important information to someone embarking on post-cycle supplementation.

    Summary of Prostate Cancer Study
    Although there was a failure to achieve statistically significant results in this study, elevated 2-OHE1 urinary levels indicated a decreased risk of prostate cancer, whereas an increased 16alpha-OHE1 urinary level showed an increase of prostate cancer 2-times that of men with the highest levels of 2-OHE1.

    I3C modulates these pathways shifting the conversion of estradiol metabolism to favor the 2-hydroxylase pathway and the subsequent 2-OHE1:16alpha-OHE1 ratio is INCREASED, which correlates with a decreased risk of various estrogen-sensitive cancers. A potential caveat worth further exploration is the increase in production of yet another estrogen exhibited by some studies (4-hydroxyestrone this is very potent). These increases were NOT significant, however, and as you will see and have seen in my various posts, are put out by people with vested interest in other products. There are multitudes of studies that actually show a concurrent DECREASE in 4-OHE1, so the mixed results tend to leave me questioning those trying to prove their various products superior. Catch my drift?

    In addition, and certainly not something studied, but the data seems to suggest shifts from the more potent (2-OHE1) to less potent (16alpha-OHE1) in a time when there is the potential for increased conversion (and this goes out to all of my aromatase-inhibitor-loving friends) namely, during the post-cycle period would also contribute to a shift in dose-response curves to the right (and that is for my pharmacologically-inclined friends). Well see in the pharmaceutic exploration (parts IV + V) that this is NOT the entire picture unfortunately, I can only address these items one by one in a certain time allotment.

    FORMS & DOSAGES: 200mg to as high as 400mg has been studied and based on available evidence, this is what I would be hard-pressed not to suggest at this time. There is no upper-limit established, but even while in the post-cycle realm, I would beg you to adhere to a max of 400mg per day as this is simply what has been supported to date.

    POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS / INTERACTIONS: Although it may seem obvious that a substance consumed over 1000s of years by millions worldwide is inherently safe, it has been challenged recently by those with vested interest in its metabolite DIM. I have expressed my concern at the challenges DIM supporters have offered and it is just plain bad science. Numerous cell culture, animal, and human studies have demonstrated I3Cs safety and tolerability, along with its targeted ability to SUPPRESS estrogen-receptor-sensitive (breast, cervical, and important for this discussion prostate) cancer growth (sorry Dr. Z), and induce programmed cell death in a variety of tumors, including those associated with breast, prostate, endometrial, leukemia, and colon cancers.

    As an aside, the cytochrome P450 enzymatic system discussed above in the AT / ATD section within both the liver and intestinal track is actually STRENGTHENED by use of I3C something that could prove especially beneficial to C17 alkylated users.

    CAUTION: Be careful of research supporting concurrent use of DIM usual vested interest is a hand-in-hand with the funding of such studies.
  8. #8

    Voodoo Junior Member

    Basically: indole 3 carbinole is an estrogen channeling agent, SAMe is bad ass liver support.
  9. #9

    marcus4657 Junior Member

    i recently had a piss test for a job, and i am on superdrol at the moment... only a half cycle to get cut... but i am kind of freaking out that it could possibly show up and i would not get hired. are you sure it wont show up?
  10. #10

    Voodoo Junior Member

    if theyre testing you for steroids, youre doomed. Odds are theyre looking for weed and so on.
  11. #11

    LifeSize Junior Member

    Damn this is a great thread. Too bad it still ain't a sticky.. Who's running this shop anyway?

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