Prohormones, worth discussing?

bigrobbie

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
I wrote this several years ago and I thought I'd share it again:

I know most Steroid discussion forum members take a pretty firm “anti” prohormone stance, myself inclulded. I must admit however, I have not researched PH’s to the degree that this “self proclaimed know-it-all” should have. I am starting to try and look past the obvious and investigate the chemistry and biology behind prohormones and test-boosters…in other words…I’m going to start to learn more about “legal steroids!” Read along, comment, ignore….basically, think what you will but I’m not going to discount steroid hormone precursors until I have learned as much as possible. Here is a little info to maybe get someone else interested. I will say this…if a mind like Patrick Arnold is intrigued by diones and diols….well, maybe there is more here than I assumed!

Prohormones (PHs) in the essense is a chemical structure with a hormonal action that covert into any number of other things, including a sex hormone. If you think about it, all hormones are PHs by the simple rules of chemistry. What I mean is this…well…this link may explain it better than I can= “Steroid]Steroid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -

The below paragraph I found on Andro Cycles - Androstenedione Information and Effects Andro Cycles – Androstenedione Information and Effects explains the prohormone/prosteroid relationship so a layman such as myself can begin to grasp the chemistry.(1)

“Prohormones in modern times (post 1994) have meant androgenic steroid precursors that convert into active androgens like testosterone and other steroids. Prosteroids are active androgens that work on their own without conversion, so for example testosterone and 1-testosterone are active androgens where androstenedione and 1-andro would be their prohormones. Prosteroids are simply active steroids. but unfortunately steroids are typically illegal due to chemical modifications. These steroids like M-Drol, Superdrol and other similar agents are active androgens that require no conversion. Also there can be synthetic steroids like H-Drol that require enzyme activation yet are chemically modified.”

Enzymes


There are really two main enzymes that convert a prohormone to an active steroid are 3b-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase and 17b-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase.These enzymes act on the 3 carbon position or the 17 carbon position to make an active steroid. Basically, add or subtract carbon atoms at the correct position on the molecular structure of a hormone and that structure can change. For example: Androgens and Estrogens s are chemically seperated by a single carbon atom.

I know, this is almost stupid to discuss, but it really is intriuging if you read up on it. Based on the “route of conversion” a prohormone takes they can be similar to anabolic steroids, even convert into the “bigdaddy of sex hormones” testosterone, but they are limited due to enzymes needed to complete this “transformation!” Everyone has different body chemistry, so I believe this is why I have seen person A. take the same PH as person B. and end up with totally different results!!

I would love to have some feedback guys….aside from the toxicity I have to admit that most hybrids from the original “Superdrol” (I believe by Anabolic Xtreme), yeild results very near Anadrol but that’s just my observations. I am posting this hoping to open a dialog about PHs. I am also researching SARMs, so anyone who wants to chat about the poor underated selective androgenic receptor modulator….lets chew the fat on that topic also!

Thanks to my main reference:

(1) Andro Cycle Online Andro Cycles - Androstenedione Information and EffectsAndro Cycles – Androstenedione Information and Effects

(2) Wikipedia: File:Steroidogenesis.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAndrogen]Bad title - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -

__________________________________________________ _________

Last thing…I read this in an article by the guy that publish “AndroCycle.com” and I thought it was extremely important for anyone using PHs or AAS!

“Contrary to what you think you need all of your steroid hormones, including cortisol, estrogen, progesterone and dehydro-testosterone to live. When steroid hormones get out of balance though, you may not feel optimal. For example environmental toxins like BPA and Parabens reduce the ability of the body to make testosterone and also act like estrogen in the body, which can cause men to feel the effects of low testosterone.
Additionally, other environmental estrogens like pesticides can throw off the Estrogen to Androgen ratio which would make you appear “healthy” on a blood test, but change the ratio of estrogenic to androgenic agents in the body. This bombardment of estrogenic agents in the diet and in environmental waste products makes it important for men above 21 to supplement with androgen prohormones to look and feel their best. With proper androgen prohormones it is possible to reclaim our masculinity and reverse the damaging effects of estrogen, which are increased fat deposits, loss of sex drive, lost feelings of well being and depressed moods.”

Goes to show that
1) Always get your blood work ;
2) Always run a PCT (an educated fact based PCT) ; and
3) Always seek help if you think you’ve messed your body chemistry up to the point where physical and/or mental problems can disrupt your life
 

colossus25

Member
Me as well. If it weren't so terrible for you I'd run it with every cycle. I can't wait to see how SD and tren play together at the end of my cycle.

I kind of have a feeling that it's going to be a gnarly ride.
I've done it. Loved it at first but i had to stop. Call me crazy but i could feel my kidneys working lol. But in the 4 weeks i ran it my body never looked better. I'm going to do it again but will proceed with more caution and lower doses this time.
 
I've done it. Loved it at first but i had to stop. Call me crazy but i could feel my kidneys working lol. But in the 4 weeks i ran it my body never looked better. I'm going to do it again but will proceed with more caution and lower doses this time.

20mg is my max on SD. I tried 30mg and I felt like a bag of smashed assholes.

@Test_Subject those fucking back pumps are unreal when you run it with tren.

I believe it. I can't even squat on superdrol with test. I've ended up on the floor of the gym ;)
 

colossus25

Member
20mg is my max on SD. I tried 30mg and I felt like a bag of smashed assholes.
I ran 40mg and by the end of it i was calling out of work from how lethargic i was. I literally had to take preworkout to be useful at anything. 20mg maybe 30mg is about what i would run now.
 

RomanMVP

Member
Speaking of Sdrol, I still have 2 bottles left back when it was a, ahem, supplement, along with a large bottle of M1T and PheraPlex. Stuff worked but it was harsh.
 

trestisbest

Member
As has already been mentioned, Superdrol is not a prohormone but an orally active anabolic designer steroid. It is very common for the term "prohormone" to be mistakenly applied to designer steroids. This originated with supplement retailers because it made the products they were selling sound more legitimate in a legal sense. Many of these designer steroids are just as effective as some of the more classic orals, like Anadrol, Anavar, Dianabol, Turinabol, Winstrol, etc. These include:

-Superdrol
-Methylstenbolone (Msten)
-Dymethazine (DMZ)
-Methyl 1-Testosterone (M1T)
-Methyl 1-Alpha (M1A; technically a prohormone to M1T because a small percentage converts but also a powerful AAS in its own right)
-Epistane
-Dimethandrostenol (Mithras)
-Halodrol (technically a prohormone to Turinabol because a small percentage converts but also an active steroid)

It would be a mistake to write these compounds off simply because they are newer. Many of them are extremely strong and recommended only for advanced users. Others, like Epistane and Halodrol, are mild enough for relative beginners and would make an excellent addition to a 2nd or 3rd injectable cycle.
 
What about SARMs? I've ran pretty much every designer steriod, with SD and MESTEN being my favorites, but I've had some successful SARM runs, too. In fact, there are some interesting studies on LGD, MK2866, and MK677 (which I'm currently taking). The only thing that concerns me is purity. Does anyone know of ways to test for SARMs?
 

trestisbest

Member
What about SARMs? I've ran pretty much every designer steriod, with SD and MESTEN being my favorites, but I've had some successful SARM runs, too. In fact, there are some interesting studies on LGD, MK2866, and MK677 (which I'm currently taking). The only thing that concerns me is purity. Does anyone know of ways to test for SARMs?

MK677 isn't a SARM. Ostarine (MK-2866) is really only good for preserving muscle mass in a cut. LGD is effective at building lean mass, but there are so many more effective options. I am actually running low-dose (4mg) LGD right now while I'm cruising to see if it provides any benefits over 8-12 weeks. I would never waste a cycle on it though. The low dose is an attempt to minimize it's negative effects on lipids.

One of the major "selling points" for SARMs that is pushed by people like Dylan Gemelli is that they have less side effects and are less suppressive than traditional AAS. This is not necessarily true. They definitely have adverse effects on lipids and on blood pressure in some individuals. Also, it was shown in a scientific study that Ostarine is suppressive at as little as 3mg a day and many are dosing it at 25-30mg.

As far as purity, I would go with a trusted supplement company over a RC site any day. But, overall, they are a waste of time and money, in my opinion.
 

Savagesteve

Member
I wrote this several years ago and I thought I'd share it again:

I know most Steroid discussion forum members take a pretty firm “anti” prohormone stance, myself inclulded. I must admit however, I have not researched PH’s to the degree that this “self proclaimed know-it-all” should have. I am starting to try and look past the obvious and investigate the chemistry and biology behind prohormones and test-boosters…in other words…I’m going to start to learn more about “legal steroids!” Read along, comment, ignore….basically, think what you will but I’m not going to discount steroid hormone precursors until I have learned as much as possible. Here is a little info to maybe get someone else interested. I will say this…if a mind like Patrick Arnold is intrigued by diones and diols….well, maybe there is more here than I assumed!

Prohormones (PHs) in the essense is a chemical structure with a hormonal action that covert into any number of other things, including a sex hormone. If you think about it, all hormones are PHs by the simple rules of chemistry. What I mean is this…well…this link may explain it better than I can= “Steroid]Steroid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -

The below paragraph I found on Andro Cycles - Androstenedione Information and Effects Andro Cycles – Androstenedione Information and Effects explains the prohormone/prosteroid relationship so a layman such as myself can begin to grasp the chemistry.(1)

“Prohormones in modern times (post 1994) have meant androgenic steroid precursors that convert into active androgens like testosterone and other steroids. Prosteroids are active androgens that work on their own without conversion, so for example testosterone and 1-testosterone are active androgens where androstenedione and 1-andro would be their prohormones. Prosteroids are simply active steroids. but unfortunately steroids are typically illegal due to chemical modifications. These steroids like M-Drol, Superdrol and other similar agents are active androgens that require no conversion. Also there can be synthetic steroids like H-Drol that require enzyme activation yet are chemically modified.”

Enzymes


There are really two main enzymes that convert a prohormone to an active steroid are 3b-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase and 17b-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase.These enzymes act on the 3 carbon position or the 17 carbon position to make an active steroid. Basically, add or subtract carbon atoms at the correct position on the molecular structure of a hormone and that structure can change. For example: Androgens and Estrogens s are chemically seperated by a single carbon atom.

I know, this is almost stupid to discuss, but it really is intriuging if you read up on it. Based on the “route of conversion” a prohormone takes they can be similar to anabolic steroids, even convert into the “bigdaddy of sex hormones” testosterone, but they are limited due to enzymes needed to complete this “transformation!” Everyone has different body chemistry, so I believe this is why I have seen person A. take the same PH as person B. and end up with totally different results!!

I would love to have some feedback guys….aside from the toxicity I have to admit that most hybrids from the original “Superdrol” (I believe by Anabolic Xtreme), yeild results very near Anadrol but that’s just my observations. I am posting this hoping to open a dialog about PHs. I am also researching SARMs, so anyone who wants to chat about the poor underated selective androgenic receptor modulator….lets chew the fat on that topic also!

Thanks to my main reference:

(1) Andro Cycle Online Andro Cycles - Androstenedione Information and EffectsAndro Cycles – Androstenedione Information and Effects

(2) Wikipedia: File:Steroidogenesis.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAndrogen]Bad title - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -

__________________________________________________ _________

Last thing…I read this in an article by the guy that publish “AndroCycle.com” and I thought it was extremely important for anyone using PHs or AAS!

“Contrary to what you think you need all of your steroid hormones, including cortisol, estrogen, progesterone and dehydro-testosterone to live. When steroid hormones get out of balance though, you may not feel optimal. For example environmental toxins like BPA and Parabens reduce the ability of the body to make testosterone and also act like estrogen in the body, which can cause men to feel the effects of low testosterone.
Additionally, other environmental estrogens like pesticides can throw off the Estrogen to Androgen ratio which would make you appear “healthy” on a blood test, but change the ratio of estrogenic to androgenic agents in the body. This bombardment of estrogenic agents in the diet and in environmental waste products makes it important for men above 21 to supplement with androgen prohormones to look and feel their best. With proper androgen prohormones it is possible to reclaim our masculinity and reverse the damaging effects of estrogen, which are increased fat deposits, loss of sex drive, lost feelings of well being and depressed moods.”

Goes to show that
1) Always get your blood work ;
2) Always run a PCT (an educated fact based PCT) ; and
3) Always seek help if you think you’ve messed your body chemistry up to the point where physical and/or mental problems can disrupt your life
I've only done epistane and halodrol but in my experience unless you want fucked up lipids and liver values for minimal results I'd stay clear.
 

RomanMVP

Member
I did pretty much all of them myself back in the early 2000s, Sdrol and M1T were the ones that made my BP really take off. I remember running laps up a steep hill while on SD and could feel tremendous pressure up both sides of neck, along with a burning sensation. That was it for me, powerful stuff. My favorite stack was ErgoPharm's 4 AD transdermal with P Arnold's new PH, 1 AD, I felt great and my body wt. and strength took off. Good stuff.
 
MK677 isn't a SARM. Ostarine (MK-2866) is really only good for preserving muscle mass in a cut. LGD is effective at building lean mass, but there are so many more effective options. I am actually running low-dose (4mg) LGD right now while I'm cruising to see if it provides any benefits over 8-12 weeks. I would never waste a cycle on it though. The low dose is an attempt to minimize it's negative effects on lipids.

One of the major "selling points" for SARMs that is pushed by people like Dylan Gemelli is that they have less side effects and are less suppressive than traditional AAS. This is not necessarily true. They definitely have adverse effects on lipids and on blood pressure in some individuals. Also, it was shown in a scientific study that Ostarine is suppressive at as little as 3mg a day and many are dosing it at 25-30mg.

As far as purity, I would go with a trusted supplement company over a RC site any day. But, overall, they are a waste of time and money, in my opinion.

I know that MK677 isn't technically a SARM but is usually lumped into the SARM category for whatever reason. I would never suggest running a SARM only cycle since ALL of them are suppressive. And Dylan G is a fucktard.

However, I do believe that running specific SARMs during a cruise is effective (as you are doing). A gave a good buddy of mine on this forum some YK11 and he loved it! Said it was one of the best orals he's ever run. That's why sometimes I question purity because I cannot imagine YK11 matching real orals in terms of gains.
 

trestisbest

Member
I know that MK677 isn't technically a SARM but is usually lumped into the SARM category for whatever reason. I would never suggest running a SARM only cycle since ALL of them are suppressive. And Dylan G is a fucktard.

However, I do believe that running specific SARMs during a cruise is effective (as you are doing). A gave a good buddy of mine on this forum some YK11 and he loved it! Said it was one of the best orals he's ever run. That's why sometimes I question purity because I cannot imagine YK11 matching real orals in terms of gains.

YK11 is an interesting one because it is methylated and actually has a steroid backbone. It may be selective, but in reality all AAS are selective to some degree. I'm not sure why it is lumped in with SARMs (perhaps so companies can make the sale of it seem more legitimate), but it is definitely an orally active anabolic steroid that could be as strong as "real orals." Whether most sources are actually selling you YK11 is anybody's guess at this point. We also don't know what dosage would be best to reap the full benefits (whatever they may be) of the compound.
 

GetBig0087

Member
Me as well. If it weren't so terrible for you I'd run it with every cycle. I can't wait to see how SD and tren play together at the end of my cycle.

I kind of have a feeling that it's going to be a gnarly ride.

The ride is nice, it's quick solid gains. I was eating all day and didn't gain any fat. BP went up a bit but I was lifting brick houses.
 

GetBig0087

Member
Pro hormones are becoming more potent with them combining different steroids together. Now I'm not saying that they're stronger than actual AAS by any means, the conversion rate is usually so low that the doses have to be some insane amount. I remember back to the release of 1 andro by OL, I was taking over 300MG a day and the results were minimal.
 

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