Reps in Reserve-Muscle Gains-Fatigue

Discussion in 'Training Forum' started by GdaddyGains, May 23, 2020.

  1. GdaddyGains

    GdaddyGains Member

    Been listening to Mike Israetel on a lot of podcasts and YouTube videos.

    This is something I struggle with and I think a lot of guys here experience the same problem. I have trouble not going until failure on a lot of sets. I don’t do it every single time but on my hard working sets I have trouble stopping.

    He is basically saying the difference between muscle stimulus at 3 RIR (reps in reserve) to 1 or failure is very minimal. But the additional fatigue is dramatically increased. I tend to have issues recovering and have to take more rest days.

    I am going to try cutting my sets shorter and leave 2-3 reps on the table and see if I can increase my frequency in the gym and reduce my overall fatigue.

    Anyone else experience this problem while training?
     
  2. Jankauskas

    Jankauskas Member

    I always trained to failure, have a very hard time training otherwise.
     
    ickyrica, GIVEitUP and S317 like this.
  3. S317

    S317 Member

    I always go to failure. I also don’t think rir is good for most people because they really don’t have the ability to gauge it properly. Going to failure I can get more out each set and exercise that I do. Jordan Peters tried Mikes style of training and reported loss of size and strength. I’d rather see what works in the real world vs what works in a controlled study with people that they call advanced or intermediate trainers who in all actuality might have been going to the gym for 5years working out like a soccer mom or dad.
    I think most people never hit true failure to where you can barely move the weight
     
    Jankauskas likes this.
  4. Eman

    Eman Member

    If you read his books and follow any of the training that's based on his research, you'll also notice that there is a linear aspect to the RIR that leads to overload. So, it's not necessarily a bad thing to go to failure but just not all the time. They also do some non linear training as well that you absolutely have to keep a detailed log to keep it straight.

    For instance, the training would have a 3RIR on week one and then increase to a 0RIR on the final week of the training cycle, then you'd enter a deload and go to maybe a 5RIR. Then you'd start over but add a little more weight onto the 3RIR sets and continue again to the 0RIR week, which should put you into a new rep max.

    Most of the juggernaut training systems online coaching is based in all of these concepts for powerbuilding. The powerlifting training utilizes RPE, which I feel is a bit better but it's all kind of the same. If you stay honest with yourself and really stay disciplined with the RIR/RPE it is a game changer. Particularly for powerlifting... Most people assume that powerlifters are maxing out constantly but it's a huge misconception. They are highly disciplined to leave those reps in the tank and max out at a precise time.
     
    ickyrica, eery and Heynow like this.
  5. JC Grifter

    JC Grifter Member

    Sometimes I feel “not training to failure” is an excuse to not work hard. Say you want to leave 3 reps in the tank to “not over train.” How do you know you have 3 reps left. Maybe you have 5 or 4 or 2. You’re mind always tells you, that you’re done before your body actually is. There were sets I mentally thought I was about to hit failure and was going to stop. But I said to myself I have to train harder than last time and pushed myself. And guess what? I had more reps in the tank than I thought.

    An it’s those last few reps that really fuel growth. I don’t think a natural should hit every set to failure, but definitely 1-2 sets per exercise. Enhanced can do way more. I’d also avoid training deadlift or squat to failure just to avoid a possible injury.
     
  6. Eman

    Eman Member

    This is one of the biggest problems with the RIR methodology, I think RPE is slightly more forgiving. If you follow elite athletes that have used the system for many years, you'll still see them post that they're questioning what the RPE was. Taking video of the sets can be even more of a mindfuck... Sometimes under the bar I swear I'm at an 8 or 9 but then I play the video back and it looks a hell of a lot more like a 6 or 7.

    Overall, it really just takes a lot of practice and you do start being able to make better judgements.
     
  7. Jankauskas

    Jankauskas Member

    I think Il just keep training to failure and deload more often.
     
  8. GIVEitUP

    GIVEitUP Member

    Just curious are you training alone I've always train alone I train to failure but often wonder how much better would it be to have a partner to help force a few extra reps past failure how much of a difference would it make
     
  9. Jankauskas

    Jankauskas Member

    Definitely used to get in a few extra reps beyond failure when I had people that spotted me, nowadays I train alone and in exercises like bench I really can’t gamble...
     
  10. JC Grifter

    JC Grifter Member

    Use dumbbells to go to failure on bench that way you can bail out if you have to
     
    Jankauskas likes this.
  11. Jankauskas

    Jankauskas Member

    Good suggestion, I actually need to switch over to dumbbells because I have an imbalance on my chest.
     
  12. GIVEitUP

    GIVEitUP Member

    I mainly do dumbbells coming off a shoulder surgery 1 1/2 yrs ago straight bar still doesn't feel right when benching
     
    Oldschool and JC Grifter like this.
  13. JC Grifter

    JC Grifter Member

    I only use a barbell now as a warm up. 1 for safety as I workout alone. And 2 because with dumbbells I can really squeeze and contract the pecs. To your point about an imbalance, I can see that happening as one arm takes over which I can also see causing an imbalance in your front delt
     
    Jankauskas and GIVEitUP like this.
  14. Jankauskas

    Jankauskas Member

    My left pec is bigger than the right one and my right front delt is substantially more developed than the left one.
     
    JC Grifter likes this.
  15. JC Grifter

    JC Grifter Member

    I never do any front delt work because it typically gets enough training with other exercises. But you might want to do a little bit just on your left front delt only to make up the difference
     
    Jankauskas likes this.
  16. I always felt like I had to get to failure or at least one rep away from failure to really do any good. This was probably based off the books and training programs I read early on. I followed Mike’s (RP male physique templates) for several training cycles. Those templates are based on this philosophy of varying how close you get to fatigue in each training cycle. I believe there were three cycles with each cycle being four weeks. At first, I didn’t feel like I was really getting any work done. As each cycle progressed, I could feel the cumulative fatigue building up. By the end of each cycle, the deload week was appreciated. I could tell I was growing with the templates. Whether it was the increased alternation of exercises, the variation in frequency or volume, or the change in how close I went to failure, I’m not sure. Probably a combination
    The time commitment just became an issue. At that point in my life, I just needed to get in, do the work quickly, and get on with my responsibilities. I didn’t have enough time to spend on the program. From my experience with those templates and what I’ve read, Mike seems very knowledgeable about training approaches and diet.
     
  17. Biggerp73

    Biggerp73 Member

    I virtually NEVER go to failure. Even on a mega dose cycle, I still wouldn't recover if I did. I always leave a couple reps in the tank. I still lift heavy as shit, and I do so with as much insane, violent, controlled intensity as I can. But I always leave a couple in the tank.
     
    hurricane likes this.
  18. cfreetenor

    cfreetenor Member

    I feel like if the last half of the last set is a grind, and it’s questionable to nearly impossible to get another rep, I usually get the best response.
     
  19. S317

    S317 Member

    This thread really has me looking back at my old logs and thinking. Honestly the most effective routine I ever used was PHAT several years ago. I’m gonna give it another go
     
  20. eery

    eery Junior Member

    What do you think made this routine so effective for you?
     
    Jankauskas likes this.