Sesamin's sexual side effects...

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by Kanecore, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. Kanecore

    Kanecore Junior Member

    Many people are reporting that taking sesamin is killing their sex drive? Does anyone have any information on this phenomenon??? Sesamin is a lignan. Lignans have similar action to phytoestrogens in that it acts as a week estrogen and may occupy the estrogen receptor site if enough is present to vastly outnumber hormonal estrogen? But these studies, mainly on breast cancer prevention, have found that this action is present in estrogen receptor sites on breast tissue. May this action lower estrogen in men (such as soy isoflavone)? And may it lower estrogen to a point where it casues this disruption in libido? I would appreciate any feedback.
     
  2. Ruper

    Ruper Junior Member

    I strongly suspect that the majority people reporting this are not experienced 'bodybuilders', used to 'cutting' and 'bulking' cycles.

    They use Sesamin on a deep cut, notice a loss in libido (duh) and blame the sesamin, when in fact it is simply due to cutting calories.

    Of course I'm not saying this is fact, but after reading a lot of threads on bb.com and having used Sesamin several times, this is the conclusion I have come to. I never read one thread from an obviously experienced member who mentioned this side effect. Most seemed somewhat puzzled.

    I've noticed that it seems quite a number of 'cutting' suppliments seem to affect libido.
     
  3. stat1951

    stat1951 Junior Member

    I have no personal experience with this as I am not aware of it being used very extensively as part of a TRT protocol (the focus of this Board). But if it is works as claimed and is used to an extent that it would excessively lower estrogen levels then, yes, it could have an adverse effect on libido. Too highly elevated estrogen will often drop libido like a rock - and too low estrogen levels can have the same unfortunate result.

    Larry
     
  4. Kanecore

    Kanecore Junior Member

    Thanks for the feedback Ruper and Larry. It is much appreciated.

    Patrick
     
  5. eliteballa3

    eliteballa3 Junior Member

    I am one to report this this is reaosn im on trt erections libido worked fine but after 2 weeks could achive erections still today am having troubles but im not on trt i also developed peryisones disisease thanks to to much cilas seasthin f-ed me up so bad because it made me try nolva,clomid anti es atds etc now im worse of then before fuck SESATHIN I FUCKIN H8 it killed my life 20 yr old n have troubles with my penis because of it fuck that man i h8 that stuff.
     
  6. skinnyguy12

    skinnyguy12 Junior Member

    now that I think about it I was taking seathin right before I started having problems with my libdo, over the summer during a cut. Maybe this could explain why a 24 year old with no health issues and no prior use of roids all of the sudden out of no where loses all of his test...
     
  7. eliteballa3

    eliteballa3 Junior Member

    exactly the shit fucked up r lives and someone needs to be known about it and more importantly is this shit perminat i mean year were on trt but we have to stay opn rest of our life?
     
  8. Ruper

    Ruper Junior Member

    Maybe. What about all the other things that changed in your life? You must have changed your diet for your cut? Eating a lot of canned tuna? What about fats reduced saturated fats? Dont you also have low cholesterol? How many times before this summer have you cut with the exact, or very similar, diet and exercise routine?

    No particular stess at the end of the 'school year'?
     
  9. Ruper

    Ruper Junior Member

    I'm not sure I could follow all that, but WOW! :eek:
     
  10. HeadDoc

    HeadDoc Psychologist

    It would help to clarify this issue if someone could post some lab values, some pre- or post- data. Please don't take this as a challenge to anyone's claim that they are suffering. We usually base our conclusions though on more data the posts present. And yes, because I get free Sesathin, I am a product whore. :D
     
  11. eliteballa3

    eliteballa3 Junior Member

    at the time i went from 5000cal to 2500 cal and all the cals i droped were from fats mostly from eggs whole eggs.
     
  12. HeadDoc

    HeadDoc Psychologist


    why did you cut so many calories? Was this healthy? What did the sesathin have to do with this?
     
  13. eliteballa3

    eliteballa3 Junior Member

    well i was on 2500 for a while but 2 weeks after i added sessathin i went impotent its the sesathin man many other people experienced the same thing it lowerd my estradiol to low and then someone suggested take ais so i did then that lowerd it even more and then even lower so it go so low that it didnt matter. That why i just want some shots so my e2 jacks up cause i need that now my e2 was 6 last time i check when it should be bout 20.if he gave me small amt of estradiol cream or something id take it so it may help. I just wanna get better thats all i know.
     
  14. stat1951

    stat1951 Junior Member


    I don't know about Lab values - and, yes, it would be GREAT to see some posted test results from people who are using Sesathin / Sesamin... I see a lot of claims that it has seriously reduced estrogen levels, but no posted date from Lab results to confirm that. Is it reducing overall estrogens or just estradiol or both? If so, could it actually be an advantageous product for individuals suffering from elevated estrogen / E2 levels? Or is this product actually acting on some other mechanism? Corrupting the body's own natural production of testosterone? Excessively lowering DHT levels?

    Again, knowing actual Lab values involved would be of special importance in determining what could be gonig on with this extract of a natural product...

    But it clearly seems to adversely affect a number of people (probably related to a number of things like sensitivity, dose-related, prior levels of estrogen - before supplementing, etc., etc.). A quickie check on some searches revealed numerous posting of various BB type boards with individuals complaining about a noticeable to severe loss of libido (and some other side effects):


    Interestingly, many sites consider sesamin (a strictly natural product like I3C or DIM or TMG, etc., etc.) to be a very positive, health-food type of supplement...

    From one article's abstract:

    Also see:




    Note that this following site discusses specifically the use of sesamin and alcohol cinsumption, but does do a good job of explaining just what sesamin is and how it functions:


    This is a weird page to read as you'll have to highlight the page with your cursor to reveal the "hidden writing"...

    (Obviously the one concern that the site does NOT address, is what about the relationship between alcohol consumption and increase in aromatase factor... I don't see anything here that leads me to believe that sesamin decreases the aromataase factor induced by alcohol consumption... unless it is simultaneously also reducing estrogen levels through another mechanism).

    And other users reported either different, non related side effects from its use - or none at all....

    Obviously some further "research" is needed... and supplied data as to E2 levels, estrogen levels DHT levels, etc. (prefereably both prior to sesamin supplementation and afterwards) would be extremely important.

    Also, a detailed history of what other medications, supplementations, etc. (such as AAS cycling) would be beneficial also...

    Larry
     
  15. HeadDoc

    HeadDoc Psychologist

    Larry thanks for the review and the provocative thoughts. As I'm doing the sesathin journal, I'll post the info as I have labs available. Of course, I would also use the labs to make corrections in the meds and supps.
     
  16. Sunkist

    Sunkist Junior Member

    There was an article in a Public Health journal recently about the effects and worries of all the psuedo-estrogens in our environment. This can be from plants, as phytos, or from some presticides, and from many other sources.

    The article was anecdotal, not a case-review, but did pose some thought provoking questions about the decreases in normal T levels in men reported across the board from 30 years ago, and the problem with precocious puberty in female preadolescents. Can anyone say prostate cancer?Intersting thoughts.

    It asked for studies to be done to check this in fact... but who can get a grant for that, and who will fund it? Big Pharma will not be interested.
     
  17. Kanecore

    Kanecore Junior Member

    http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2005-02-11/cols_health.html

    This link explains, in brief, the hormonal actions of lignans (which including sesame lignans, but focuses mainly on flax). Much medical research seems to revolve around the propensity of lignan to be utilized in breast cancer prevention (see above link). This research indicates that lignans act as a phytoestrogen, akin to soy isoflavones. If this is indeed the case, then it may cause havoc in some individuals whose estrogen(s) is low normal to begin with or has some particular sensitivity to lignans. Obviously, testing "pre" and "post" administration of sesamin would be desirable before one can make such a claim as stat1951 pointed out. I am excited to see what HeadDoc's findings are.
     
  18. hackskii

    hackskii Member

    Omega 3's also aid in fat loss, aid in PG-1 and PG-3's to lower inflammation, aids in depression, helps with insulin resistance, lowers triglycerides, lowers homocysteine, and a host of other things with no bad side effects.

    You can get it for very cheap in the form of Fish oils.
    I have been taken these for a long time and noticed more volume and flow of urination.

    Low carb diets switch from burning glucose and glycogen to FFA and ketones and do burn stored fat.
    Add some fish oils to that and you will help yourself to be insulin sensitive too.
     
  19. stat1951

    stat1951 Junior Member


    I also look forward very keenly to see what HeadDoc's data will be with his following a sesamin supplementation program...

    Sesamin lignans are pretty clearly phytoestrogens and presumably have the same phytoestrogenic properties that other phytoestrogen lignans do.

    The question is this... for males, especially hypogonadal males, is that really such a positive consideration?

    The concerns / dangers of soy isoflavones (lignans) are well known...

    http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/dangersisoflavones.html

    http://www.karinya.com/soydangers.htm

    Also, some of the more recent research has implicated flaxseed with INCREASED levels of prostate cancer in men! While those studies are often not conclusive, they do raise specific concerns.

    Anyway, does such a concern also exist with sesamin lignans? (Also, note this from the newspaper article: ...sesame seeds contain mostly linolenic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid.... )

    Do phytoestrogenic substances act more like the estrogen (especially in males) that we have been giving those substances credit for?

    Also... as spelled out in the Austin Chronicle article, the phytoestrogen lignans - which the newspaper article actually refers to as "lignan estrogen" - work in the following manner:

    Is it a smart move for males - especially hypogonadal males - to be administering even a "weak" estrogenic substance into their bodies? As a side note, notice how all of these studies are "primarily" concerned with dealing with estrogens and how they affect menopausal women (whether pre, during or post) and more so the breast cancer issue... I think that was why it was such a surprise when the flaxseed / prostate cancer connection surfaced in those studies (Gasp... the thought that men and women could be physiologically different!).

    Also - and this is one of the most important aspects that I am beginning to consider - have "we" the hypogonadal community - been focusing way too much attention only on estradiol (E2) while not devoting near enough

    So, am still doing some research into sesamin in particular and lignans in general. The next "installment" I am going to play "devil's advocate" with some other information concerning lignans in general....

    Larry

    P.S. To address the initial topic, I am finding NO correlation between taking sesamin and having one's HPT Axis shutdown.

    Does sesamin involve phytoestrogen substance increases (or pseudo estrogens)? Quite likely. In fact, most definitely.

    Estrogen decreases? Not as likely, but possibly... although simply adding phytoestrogens to one's diet - if that is even a good thing - would probably only have a minimal result in LOWERING estrogen levels being naturally produced by the body... after all, the whole theory is that the pseudo-estrogens compete for the estrogen receptor sites, thereby lowering the effects of estrogen, NOT that the pseudo-estrogens actually reduce estrogen levels. (But see devil's advocate position in follow-up posting).

    From examination of a number of postings across forums, it seems that sesamin (specifically in version of trade name Sesathin) was most frequently Sesamin supplemented in the context of utilizing along with AAS cycles and / or with AIs like arimidex. So if estrogens are being reduced by sesamin, then that would be a minimal reduction when compared to that being done by the AI.... but the sesamin "could" possibly be further lowering the already too low estrogens (that were lowered too low actually by the AI)...

    In either case, I can find no indicators whatsoever that sesamin would cause the shut down or even the drastic reduction in one's HPT Axis process - especially once sesamin supplementation was stopped. AAS usage as well as any number of other conditions that create hypogonadism could of course be the real culprit for reduced HPTA functioning while the sesamin is simply erroneously taking the blame (at least in the view of taking the blame for HPTA reduction).
     
  20. stat1951

    stat1951 Junior Member


    HeadDoc,

    Not sure I posted this before, but there's a considerable amount of data here on the Sesamin substance... and these appear to be all listings of clinical trials as reported in various medical journals, etc.

    They summarize with the following:

    It then proceeds to list the clinical study references with an abstract summary for each one... thought you'd like to know.

    I have found no conclusive info that sesamin definitely reduces E2 or estrogens. There is one article - by Vitamin Research Products - that claims that another lignan, has aromatase inhibiting effects...
    Quoted studies:

    If accurate, that of course would show that this particular lignan has some degree of AI effects and would result in lowering of estrogen levels (E2 and Total Es) to some degree. Whether that effect transfers over to other / all lignans, I would have no idea. One would assume that this effect would result in the presence of MORE natural free testosterone in the bloodstream (but not excessively so)...

    But I could also specifically find nothing whatsoever that indicates that any lignans, specifically sesamin, has a process that would result in the shutdown of one's HPT Axis and result in a hypogonadal state in that manner, so I don't see where sesamin would be the cause of the problem initially indicated in this thread. And it seems that it is a substance that has been studied specifically long enough that if this effect (HPT Axis shutdown) did exist that references to it should be readily researched.

    At most, I can see examples of where individuals with naturally (or otherwise induced) very low levels of estrogens could end up going too low with the use of certain lignans IF that info is correct about the AI effect of certain lignans. Such an individual would - of course - then exhibit symptoms of estrogen levels that are too low.

    Larry