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Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by drp90210, Apr 10, 2010.
Even if i inject as little as 7-8 mg SQ is it still going to swell and hurt ?
The least amount of prop that I have tried SQ abdomen was 14mg/day for about 3 days and I had large lumps that lasted for weeks and significant pain for about a week. This was legitimate pharmaceutical grade which is also somewhat painful IM. However there are some UGLs that have prop with zero pip but I have not tried them SQ. I'm not against SQ testosterone, in fact that's the method I was using with cypionate or enanthate before I switched to prop. Please remember that you can still use the thin insulin syringes for shallow IM delts and quads.
I do wonder if TP has too low of a viscosity for SQ injection. What kind of oil do they use in your TP? The usual cottonseed?
It can be made with any oil but usually it comes in grape seed oil. It seems to draws up faster than the standard cottonseed or sesame seed oils.
I usually cut my pharmaceutical grade prop with a little extra grape seed oil to take some of the pip away. But if you go ugl there is no need. I don't know what they do to their prop but I would really like to find out.
latest bloods came in ;
test : 8.7nmol (8.6-28.8)
E2 : 150pmol (40-150)
SHGB : 12.2nmol (18-45)
Consultant endo aims to start me on an AI mono-therapy next appointment in 3 months to see if it helps any.....
He is also going down the chronic fatigue and sleep apnea route..
Blazerone how many days did it take after your first injection of propionate to feel the difference ?
Just a few hours.
Any luck with reducing your E2 on arimidex monotherapy?
Unfortunately have joined the low shbg club and TRT has not been going well lately. 1st 7 years went great and I am doing everything I can to fight. I am down from a fluctuationing 267-270 lbs starting weight back in September to now weighing between 237-240 and dropping. I hit the gym daily Monday-Friday (1/2 hour cardio and 1/2 hour weights working various muscles in rotation in a routine). I just am not my self, I wake up some mornings angry as hell and I am usually the most mellow of guys and hate lashing out rather than laughing about shit. Anyway, I want to share my bloods in hope for some advice. My TRT/HRT Program as prescribed is 1 1/2 tabs aromasin daily, 4 pumps androgel 1.6% daily or whatever the new one is, and hcg 400 ius every other day. The doctor knows I know my body well, and allows me to adjust accordingly. I cant tolerate that much HCG so doc said, take dose that I can to avoid estrogen/anxiety. I am now off of it, for second week and haven't had aches in the balls which usually come on quick. I also am taking more like 2 tabs Aromasin broken up throughout the day to stop anxiety when my estrogen goes up. If the aches come back, I will take HCG again. I really hate the anxiety and mood changes I am having. Doc is happy with the weigh loss and plan is to get down into 220 lb range. Here are the labs (at time of labs I was taking 250 iu HCG eod and same amount of ai and androgel as listed above)
SHBG- 9 nl Low (10-50 nmol/l)
WBC 7.3 (3.8-10.8 thousand ul)
RBC 5.23 (4.20-5.80 million ul)
Hemogloin14.3 (13.2-17.1 g/dl)
Hematocrit 44.3 (38.5-50%
MCH-27.3 (27.0-33.0 pg)
MCHC-32.3 (32.0-36.0 g/dL)
Platelet count 235 (140-400 thousand/ul)
FSH .7 (L) (1.6-8.0 miu/ml)
LH 0.2 (L) (1.5-9.3 miu/ml)
Total test 241-847
Estradion<15 (< or=39pg/ml)
One thing I noticed is my Total test has dropped and usually is more than double that number. Sorry for the lengthly post, but I would rather provide too much info than to little as I am hoping for some guidance. Should I try dividing up my androgel dose? Is this a really low number for SHbG. Anyone else get the mood issues? I can actually feel my estrogen rising every couple hours and the aromasin works like valium calming me as it brings my estrogen down. Sucks.
Thanks for everyones time in this thread, and for anyone who made read this, thank you for your time and thoughts. I am working with a doctor and have f/u bloods but going thru these symptoms everyday and having meso-well I just want what everyone else does, to feel and be healthy. Respect
For you to believe a low SHBG is even remotely responsible for your emotional turmoil is absolute silliness! (Unfortunately this thread has done exactly that for many Meso visitors)
Your symptomatic description and essentially normal labs make a psychosocial causation MUCH more likely IME.
That's the catch,... its another 3 month wait till the next appointment, every consultation with him, he ruffles back and fourth through 3 pages of notes, scrolls through a few blood test results, hums and haa's and sends me away with a followup in 3 months.
Sorry to hear that, mate.
I am confident that you will find some relief with anti-estrogen monotherapy.
Even if it does not cure the hypogonadism, it will still take care of your grossly elevated estrogen.
Something to look forward to, no mater if it is only one piece of a larger puzzle.
This whole thing is f**ked up .. I tried two testosterone propionates dosing them differently and again no difference at all. I have been eating extremely clean - the anti inflammatory diet for about 4 months and my SHBG went up to 12, and my testosterone went up a little bit but its still in the lowest of the scale. Still i dont feel any difference at all. I am so pissed at this whole thing i dont know what else to try.
Too Much Sugar Turns Off Gene That Controls Effects Of Sex Steroids -- ScienceDaily Here's one article that says that "insulin is not to blame and that it’s actually the liver’s metabolism of sugar that counts" for low SHBG. What exactly do they mean that the gene is turned off ?
U left off the link??
"When a gene is turned off, it no longer provides the directions for making proteins. This means that the proteins needed to fulfill a particular job -- say, tolerate lactase -- aren't produced."
Props to Dr Jim on the dx
Saw endo and my PCP and it looks like high blood pressure likely stress related was the culprit of me feel like shit and not SHBG. The blood pressure meds are really helping, and I feel myself again. SHBG is still a 9. Still need a good dose of AI for estrogen but its working, and plan is to loose another 15 lbs. I started working out in Sept and have cut down from 265/270 to todays weight of 239! Gotta get to 225 by Spring, which is my goal, and hoping things will get even better for me. Endo mentioned the low SHBG could be genetic and not that big a deal if its the case.
Could you show us your most recent lab results and describe your dosing regimen?
I will call my Endo and get my latest labs posted up....Quest dropped one of the vials....the one for Estradiol sensitive test.....I am waiting on the results for that test so should have it and a completed labs copy sometime next week. My protocol is androgel 1.6 %-4 pumps daily, aromasin (25mg tabs, generic) 1 1/2 tabs a day, I deal with a lot of estrogen and have recently been adding Liquidex also at 1/2 mg in am also cause the Aromasin which is prescribed doesn't cut it. I am also prescribed Novarel (hcg) at 400 iu every other day but it just creates too much e and I get f'n moody so I have taken a few weeks off now and feel better but the atrophy is startin up again. Wonder if clomid would keep the boys plump without all the e problems HCG causes, or if it would just cause new ones. I am accepting atrophy because anxiety is actually more painful. I can't believe I am typing this but it is the truth. Ill get the labs to you and keep you posted on how the weight loss effects things. I am super dedicated to shedding the weight. Im 6 foot 1 and need to be below 229 to no longer be in the "Obese range".
I would like to see a ldl hdl lipid profile of recent. All that AI you are taking will destroy your lipid profile.