Should I give a try to Gyno protocol before surgery ?

Discussion in 'Steroid Post Cycle Therapy and ASIH Treatment' started by FrenchNakmuay, May 21, 2020.

  1. FrenchNakmuay

    FrenchNakmuay Junior Member

    Hello meso community :)
    Ok so I’ll explain a bit about myself , first I am french and I think it’s still important to mention it as the way I am writing can sound different for you haha

    so I’ve got a gyno like 5 years ago from Diana et proprio start and tried to deal with it directly but I had bunk Ai/sarms i believe

    so I have ordered letrozole and nolvadex to try to deal with it 1 month straight after the first day I’ve got the gyno .
    It had working clearly but not enough to get ride of the gland .
    my nipples was finally flat and not having any puffiness.

    So I was living in Thailand for the last 4 years and it was really convenient for me to get my stuff from many pharmacy there .

    I am now in the UK London , and I had to do my first professionnel thaï fight in Europe not long time ago and had to loose weight .
    I loosed my weight to fast due to the intensive training twice a day and suddenly felt the same as when I’ve got the gyno the first few months so it seems to be active now .
    And growing even , it’s took the double size already .
    I’ve ordered letrozole and some nolva pharma grade this time and hoping i will MAYBE deal something with it again But really hopeless as it’s been now 5 years ...

    I need to mention that I am smocking weed , for the last 4 years as well but it was affecting my gyno only when I was high but the next day it was already back to normal as my œstrogènes levels fall down .
    So for my fight I had to stop cuz it was an important fight into a big organisation ( drug test ..)
    And like 2 or 3 Weeks after weed off I had the gyno active again and growing again .

    I plan to do a surgery as it is even free in my country but it’s not clearly the moment with the covid and anyway I need to be back in my country and dealing with administration to get my social health right back .

    So I plan to stop smocking when i will receive the stuff and adapting my diet to helps as well .
    I will do a blood test again as soon as I can but I already did a mammography and everything 5 years ago just before to get my ass in Thailand and even finally decided to stay there as an expat . So finally I haven’t get my surgery done and now has to be back in my country and having a long way to be able to get an appointment with surgeon/anesthesiologist/endocrinologist to end finally with the surgery .

    i will start from 0.25 mg/d and I’ll increase it til I reach 2.5 mg and I’ll stick to it for a few weeks to see if it’s good enough to shrink the gyno even a bit I’ll be happy . i know many gonna tell me that letro it’s not a joke and that I am gonna feel really low . But I already experienced it in the past so I am ok to deal with it another time .
    i was wondering if nolvadex while taking letro is it ok ? cuz I heard that nolva can be a bad choice mix with letro . I wanted to takes nolva while using letro as 10mg daily and I’ll continue after letro off with 20mg/d

    I hope i was clear enough and yeah it’s maybe a bit long haha .
    thank you guys !!! ‍♂️
  2. Noah86

    Noah86 Member Supporter

    Taking Nolva plus Letro you’re going to just tank your e2.

    Have you tried Ralox? Some people such as myself have responded well to the basic protocol of 60mg for 10days then 30mg until Gyno is reversed. Mine was very subtle and not quite advanced at the time so that may be a factor as well in regards to it’s effectiveness. It’s worth a shot, but if you have the funds the surgery will obviously permanently eliminate any future gyno.
    Dthcore, Grab Bag and FrenchNakmuay like this.
  3. Demondosage

    Demondosage Member

    Just get the surgery and have the gland removed while at it. Everything else is pissing in the wind at this point
  4. FrenchNakmuay

    FrenchNakmuay Junior Member

    Hey mate thanks for your answer .
    I heard about ralox yeah but it’s quite expensive to run for 3 -> 6 months as i am taking only pharma grade for AI/sarms now .
    I already ordered from pharmacist .
    I’ve been reading about gyno a loooot to conclude myself that letro it’s still the best in the last case to ride on gyno ...
    as i read as well that ralox in long term can be the best choice .
    I had a good response with the letro in the past so in the doubt I took it again
    I’ll order some Ralox as well then even if I will end with the surgery for sure .. but when ? I don’t know ...
  5. FrenchNakmuay

    FrenchNakmuay Junior Member

    Hey mate thanks for your answer .
    Yeah i get you , but it’s the summer now , and it’s obvious even over a sweater so I am desperate a bit too ..
    I am ready to feel shit for a bit and I’ve seen many people saying that it was working for them even after years ..
    Anyway I’ll not doing this for months , if it’s not working I’ll drop it all .
    I’ll probably get the surgery during the winter coming after this summer ... hopefully !!
    and hopefully the surgeon will do the job .
  6. Jin23

    Jin23 Member

    Letro is not the best thing for gyno, in fact, letro will only bring down your e2. SERMs are the thing you should be using and in high enough doses for a long enough period. Ralox, torem, tamox ...

    Ralox is much better at reducing old gyno and it's the serm you actually want to use. Tamox is ok but take 40 and then reduce to 20 for a month or two. Letro you basically don't need. Also, have you checked your prolactin? You might have problems there and that's where the nipple sensitivity is coming from. Just had something like this happen to me. My gyno flared up, thought it was my e2. Took bloods and saw my e2 was below bottom lab range and prolactin was 1.5 above range. This was a problem with due to a drug (quetiapine) I was taking for sleep, but all I'm saying, make sure it's estrogen.

    In case, tamox 40mg then lower to 20. But, I wouldn't use serms before and during fights. They will make you a lot less aggressive and more scared. They act on a lot of brain receptors similar to estrogen. So it's basically very similar if you were fighting with high estrogen numbers. Ralox is the least offensive serm in this regard as it has the highest binding affinity to breast tissue and the lowest towards hpta.
    FrenchNakmuay likes this.
  7. FrenchNakmuay

    FrenchNakmuay Junior Member

    Hello. Thank you so much for all of the information.
    What would you suggest about high prolactin if it’s my case ?
    I am actually on letro 1.25 already and taking nolva as 20 mg as well.
    So finally I’ll maybe drop the letro then ...
    and I’ll push the nolva from 20 to 40 mg.
    I am not able to do a blood test at the moment because of the covid19.
    i am trap ..
    If I am trying to take caber without knowing how high is my prolactin level is it a problem ?
    Yes actually I am off about fighting , there no gym open anywhere in the uk ...
    no gym no fighter no fight ..
    thank you again mate. That’s helpful
  8. Jin23

    Jin23 Member

    Well in case if it's sensitivity due to increased prolactin, caber as you mentioned, would be the best option. With caber you have to watch out for low blood pressure. That's the biggest side you'll encounter, probably. And you should start as low as possible. 0.25mg e3.5d.

    What is the problem though? Just a slight flare up of existing gyno? If that's the case then don't overdo it with ancylaries. I mean, didnt you mention you were going to have surgery? Anyway, using tamox for an extended period of time can bring the lump down a bit, 10 to 50%, but it certainly wont get rid of it.

    Does thc actually elevate estrogens?
    FrenchNakmuay likes this.
  9. FrenchNakmuay

    FrenchNakmuay Junior Member

    Hey mate. Thanks for your time
    Ok I’ve noted that ! So yeah basically I had existent gyno for few years but not being active as having puffy nipple and sensitivity. Like feeling burn or something like that .
    I used to have the lump for years with no problem as the nipple was flat and not puffy.
    When I had my first sign of gyno in the past I cured it with letro and nolva as well but with no 100% succès. But with the time , it was ok.
    Now its like double size , and i feel the same as when I got it the first time..
    My gyno is due to a stack with Diana and test proprio .
    The second time that flared up was in last November when I stopped weed for 2 weeks and lost my weight suddenly cuz I had to ..
    and I guess it’s have played with my hormone balance ... but as I told you I am
    Not able to get a blood test done at the moment. Hopefully soon.
    I’ve no other issue I guess ..
    if it’s was me only I’m going for caber low dose with no blood test before that just to see if is effective in some way or not but I guess that may be stupid.
    And yes THC elevate osteogen level as the alcohol does.
    And no I am not about to get the surgery yet as the covid shut everything down .. i hope I will be able to get this done before the next summer , but since there I am here with my bitch boobs hahha
    thanks mate .
    Jin23 likes this.
  10. Grab Bag

    Grab Bag Member

    Noah, is there a more detailed post to your experience with this? I’d like to give it a read if so, if not, would love some additional info about your experience w that protocol.
    FrenchNakmuay likes this.
  11. Jin23

    Jin23 Member

    Good. Hope it gets reduced mate. I'm also dealing with it at this very moment. Taking 20mg tamox, which I hate bc I feel awful on it, but I hope it does something. I can relate. Ralox is best if you can get, just remember that. Don't settle for tamox. I just bought tamox bc I couldn't get my hands on ralox, but will order it as soon as it gets in stock. Suggest you do the same.

    Do you have an actual lump that you can feel or is it just puffiness?
    FrenchNakmuay likes this.
  12. FrenchNakmuay

    FrenchNakmuay Junior Member

    Hi mate I hope you’re well !
    Yes I will definitely order the Ralox from pharmacist in here as soon as he receive it in stock.
    At the moment I am dealing with letro for a bit cuz I feel the high e2 side effect since the gyno flared up again.
    Yes for years I can feel the lumb in both side but my nipple was not puffy and swollen.
    Now it’s looks like the beginning of my gyno , really being active , sensitive at any food iam eating ..
    Seems even that I am making some milk haha like for real my nipples are a lot bigger like women boobs. But I’ve the body of a Thai boxer so it’s dosent fit very well ..
    I guess the second time it’s may be come from high prolactin as well. I’ve read that tamox can help by reducing the prolactine level .. if you know more about that mate ?
    Thanks mate . Have a good day
    Jin23 likes this.
  13. Jin23

    Jin23 Member

    If you have a discharge, like just a bit of fluid that pops out when you squeeze hard, that is indeed normal for gyno. And that is a sign of high prolactin.

    I wouldn't use letro in high doses. If you do you are just going to crush your estrogen and you will feel like dog chit. Chances are your e2 wasn't elevated at all, if you are not on cycle and you are lean, I highly doubt your e2 is that high. Besides, tamox will do all the work that needs to be done. And if you take caber, then you are golden. So take letro if you want to but do it at a small dose; ie. 0.3mg e3d. Something like aromasin is useful after you stop tamox, so you don't get rebound estrogen problems. I mean, letro is also fine, but you need to tit rate it down slowly.

    Yes, tamox lowers prolactin, not by much, but it does. I don't know why, it should actually increase it due to the fact that use of tamoxifen elevates estrogens ... Maybe somebody smarter can chime in on that.

    Some of the puffiness should go away though really soon. But the lumps will shrink in weeks if not months of time. And how much they shrink, or if they shrink at all, is just based on luck. But don't expect miracles. Be happy of any reduction that happens.
    FrenchNakmuay likes this.
  14. FrenchNakmuay

    FrenchNakmuay Junior Member

    Hey mate. Hope you’re good!
    Ok i will definitely do are you saying.
    I slowed increased letro up to 2.5 . Now I will go down as 1.25 for few day then 0.50. Then I’ll stick with 0.3 e3d as you told me.
    It was a mistake to give a try to this protocol again , as It’s in purpose to crash the e2 , 0 œstrogen and the lumb should shrink by having no œstrogèn at all ..
    I think the first thing is that I have to stop to smoke weed as it’s clearly elevating osteogene and prolactin level for a short time.
    Then I’ll find a new source for the ralox as pharmacist don’t have it anymore. But I wanna stick with pharma grade.

    do you know if I can use bromo ou pramy instead of caber , because caber it’s kind of expensive actually compare to the other.
    I’ll order more tamox and something to lower my prolactin with low dose.
    Thanks mate .
  15. Jin23

    Jin23 Member

    Sure you can. Prami just has more sides.

    Regarding tapering letro, I meant that after you stop taking the serm. That you taper it of 2 weeks after cesation. But I really do recommend aromasin for this.
    FrenchNakmuay likes this.
  16. FR0Z3N_B0MB34

    FR0Z3N_B0MB34 Member

    I got gyno from tren and pharma cabergoline, tamoxifen and Anastrozole werent enough to win against gyno... so i did surgery and i m so happy about it because now i have zero fat under my nipples and my pec are good shaped even at 10% Bodyfat or more... even if right now im at 9% i think and wont do beyond 10% anymore... i said Adios to saturated fats..
    FrenchNakmuay, Jaa0024 and Jin23 like this.
  17. Jin23

    Jin23 Member

    I'm also more and more inclined towards surgery ... just don't have enough money saved up.

    Did the surgery leave you with any scars?
    FrenchNakmuay likes this.
  18. FR0Z3N_B0MB34

    FR0Z3N_B0MB34 Member

    F7C982EF-6587-4D4F-AC4E-F2B23B7E5207.jpeg DE2F06F1-9295-4C9B-8C9D-0D3F1F9D920B.jpeg

    Nothing terrible.. my nipples are maybe 1cm of diameter... so i noticed it pratically now taking a zoomed pic..

    And right now i m still at very low caloric intake, about 1000 kcal daily , on trt only 200mg Test C weekly, and doing Capoeira 5 times weekly... so i think with a nice muscle mass on pec you cannot notice anything... but as stated, i saw just now scars because on mirror i didnt see.. too smalls

    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  19. FR0Z3N_B0MB34

    FR0Z3N_B0MB34 Member

    If you do surgery, you should Then wear a gym tank with this graphic

    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  20. Jaa0024

    Jaa0024 Junior Member

    Nice! Your surgeon did well!

    I plan on getting surgery during thanksgiving. I have mild gyno. Tried everything under the fucking sun to get rid of it. No luck.
    I’ve been having it 10 years. I just want to have porn star nipples lol
    FR0Z3N_B0MB34 likes this.