So now I'm experimenting with testosterone troches (sublingual)

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by The_Skeptic, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. #1

    The_Skeptic Junior Member

    This is in addition to the 140 mg of test I shoot a week, plus the 600 IUs of hcg I inject towards the end of the week and the HGH and the Armour and the HC and the Dexedrine, plus my vitamins and let's not forget the Ambien.

    My doc said he doesn't have much experience with troches but he is always attending anti-aging conferences and one of the doctors was recommending troches before sex.

    I became interested in told him I would like to give it a try. He is interested in seeing my results.

    So I received a pack of 20 troches of 5 mg each. The compounding pharmacy makes them at 5, 10 or 15 mg, so I'm starting low and see how it goes.

    I'm curious to see how this would work during a night of drinking when my libido tends to drop.

    We've had a previous discussion on troches here where people didn't seem too favorable of them.
  2. #2

    CubbieBlue Active Member


    That is a lot of drugs!

    Do you really need all that? If it's not helping...why are you taking it?
  3. #3

    The_Skeptic Junior Member

    I have a damaged pituitary from a childhood head injury that left me with traumatic brain injury. I was four years old. I almost died.

    Now, almost four decades later, I'm doing all I can to live a normal life. But it's not easy.
  4. #4

    CubbieBlue Active Member

    Sorry man, I forgot. So many people here sometimes I forget who's got what going on. You are one of the people here that actually needs HC.

  5. #5

    James23 Active Member

    I'd like to know know why the usefulness of troches was so downplayed in the original thread about them that I started -- the same one that The Skeptic linked to in his original post.

    I can't seem to find out exactly how much testosterone is actually absorbed through mucosal tissue.

    Striant, the mouth based TRT system, adheres to the gums ALL DAY. It has a very large amount of testosterone, but only a tiny portion of it ever makes it through the gums. This tells us something important about the efficacy of the approach.

    I do not think there are any studies related to the troches whatsoever. The theory does not seem to be sound. They only last in the mouth for minutes. Most, if not all, of the swallowed testosterone is neutralized. Based on the research done by the makers of Striant, a huge dose would be needed, and it would need to remain in contact with mucosal tissue for an hour or more for a subjectively significant amount ot be absorbed.

    This is what makes the sublingual droplets so worthless. 3-5mg of testosterone in contact with oral tissues for a matter of minutes is not going to result in any significant absorption of testosterone.

    The only studied mucosal delivery system requires 60mg of testosterone to remain on the gum line for the duration of the entire day. This provided an average of a 200ng/dl boost.

    Boosting testosterone a few nanograms per dicoliter, if at all, through troches shouldn't have any perceivable effect.

    The Skeptic, aren't you the guy who carries loaded insulin syringes of testosterone around in your pocket for use in bar bathrooms? I guess that hasn't been working out for you, huh?
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  6. #6

    CubbieBlue Active Member

    If you want a quick libido boost wouldn't the best and easiest method be to apply some transdermal test to your nuts? Boost your T a bit and shoot your DHT temporarily through the roof.
  7. #7

    The_Skeptic Junior Member

    Yes, I was doing that, and that was working. That was back when I shooting small doses throughout the week.

    The problem was, to really make it work, you have to shoot 10 mg several times a week, and that can get old.

    So I started increasing the dosages to 15 mg to not shoot so often, then I noticed I started gaining weight and putting on bloat.

    And it got real hard to keep track of the doses and make it all consistent.

    So I started thinking about the whole TRT thing. A few years ago when I was injecting every ten days or so, I weighed 190. Then, then I started injecting more frequently, going on the advice I read here, I shot up to 210.

    My theory was that every time I was injecting, my E2 was shooting up, regardless of the small amount of test I was shooting. I've seen charts that prove this. E2 shoots up as well as test, then levels out.

    So I was wondering if all those little shots during the week were essentially creating a multitude of E2 spikes, which was contributing to my weight gain.

    And I wondered if I went back to my weekly shots, which I have done, would my weight go back down because then I would only have one E2 spike, which I can control with arimidex.

    It seems to be working on my weight. I weigh about 200 now, but lately my diet has sucked and I haven't been working out.

    I've also experienced more mental fog with the multitude of shots during the week, which makes it hard for me to focus on work.

    But it was also true that if I was out drinking, a 10 mg shot of test in my thigh in the bathroom would give me a lift in libido.

    I told that to my doc and he brought up the troche. That's how he got to talking about.

    My doc is very cool. I can be very open with him. He knows I smoke pot and drink and doesn't judge me on it. He knows I'm a very complicated case.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
  8. #8

    The_Skeptic Junior Member

    My DHT is high according to my last blood work and my doctor wants me to lower it, so he wouldn't be up for that.

    But I'm willing to try it though.

    However, if I'm with a girl, applying test to my ball wouldn't be the sexiest thing to do.
  9. #9

    The_Skeptic Junior Member

    James, keep in mind that these troches I'm using are not for TRT purposes. I'm already injecting. it's for those nights that you can't get it up for whatever reason.

    Doc said it doesn't convert to E2 or DHT. That it's straight test, very quickly.

    I'm going to be partying on Sunday night, then again next Friday, so I'll let you guys know how they work.
  10. #10

    James23 Active Member

    I find this extremely, extremely hard to believe. T is T. What would make it immune to conversion!??!

    It does the same thing testosterone suspension does. Reacts with other things very quickly!
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
  11. #11

    zkt Active Member

    The gums dont absorb anything close to as well as the sublingual area. SL approaches 100%, and it goes into the serum very quickly. That is why angina patients carry the little nitroglycerine pills. Pop it under the tongue and it dilates the cardiac arteries almost immediately. Same for T.
    Its easy to get your T off the scale. And, of course, watch out for the estrogen.
    T1/2 of T in serum =about an hour
  12. #12

    James23 Active Member

    100% absorption is not true.

    A daily average of 7 mg of testosterone, total, is produced by the average healthy eugonadal male. A testosterone troche, dissolved under the tongue, according to your information, would then deliver a FULL DAY's worth of testosterone to the body in under 10 minutes!

    Buccal delivery systems like Striant which contain 60mg of testosterone would be apt to "leak" that testosterone into the saliva. Affected saliva would naturally settle towards the area under the tonuge. If your absorption statistic were true, this would lead to supraphysiological testosterone levels.

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