Steroids and Sleep Apnea

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by BBC3, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    Any of you guys have trouble breathing lately. The use of higher levels of testosterone is supposed to be affiliated with the thickening of some areas of the throat and sinus and contrbute to breathing difficulty. It just so happens I am now facing this issue for the first time. Does anyone have experience here. Perhaps if I back my Deca down a couple of thousand a week, this could help to resolve. Help please have not slept in days this is no fun.........
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  2. xray9

    xray9 Junior Member

    Yes, unfortunately testosterone has made my sleep apnea worse. I have to sleep on my side in order to breathe. Sometimes I wake up lying on my back gasping for air. I'm also unusually tired during the day lately. I'm thinking about getting sleep labs done and getting a CPAP machine. Not too thrilled with the idea.

    If you're familiar with hunting, it's like a male deer during mating or "rutting" season. When his testosterone is high, his neck swells up.
     
  3. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    You are prechin to the choir now. I just had a sleep lab done last week over this. The intensity of my current issue was a coincidence. THAT IS A SUPER INTERESTING ANALOGY with the deer. FURTHER, I can barely speak normally right now, and there is no PUS walkin straight around this house..... CPAP?? I am dreaming of gettting the call on a cancellation thus inviting me in to do my second sleep study night. I would get the CPAP tonight (this would be nice!!!!). I understand It will cost me about 700 out of pocket. Thats 80/20 plus any ded not yet incurrred. The device is apparently around 2K + change///..:)

    FYI. This is a true nightmare I am living right now and I also have a thread going in the steroid section. There is more interesting info from others there too....
     
  4. Jeton

    Jeton Member

    i have apnea as well and it's worsened with my longterm TRT, a friend uses the CPAP machine but i'm not sure if it's for me...i tend to toss n turn alot. otoh, there's a device they sell on infomercials that i'm very interested in yet cant recall the name of...it's basically a mouthpiece that makes ur lower jaw jut forward a certain amount as u sleep...it's supposed to pull away the part of neck muscle that relaxes most in apnea and thereby prevent the repeating closures. it's like $50 or so...[|)]
     
  5. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    i REALLY appreciate your reminder on the mouthpiece. I will def let you know how it goes. As far as apnea. The device is def for me. I had seen my dad and others live with apnea and no device, so I have some idea what it looks like when I sleep. I have often in the past woken myself snoring, but never have I been awakend to a 160+ heart rate and haveing to start breathing a warp speed to get it down. (This is only my new deca situation.) IT MUST FEEL LIKE THIS TO DROWN. As far as CPAP goes and As far a the reality of having the unit I have found there are 3 types now. The original that is some kind of full mask, there is a new smaller one that simply surrounds the nose, and finally now there is some time the fits inside (custom) the nostrils. They say mostly room air with a little humidifier action to keep from drying your ass out. They also tol me that there are indeed quite a few X-LARGE guys that need the addition of some oxagen added. Probably O2 would not be necessary for someone of our profile. I am open to any of them if they will give me back myself. I am tired all time and they say this device will give you back your energy in the day!!!! this is why I had already been looking into it prior to these Deca episodes. One further note that kindof started all of this was that I went in to see an ear nose and throat specialist after all that hubbub about esophegeal cancer at a new rate of 400 times previous occurance. When he went in through my nose he gasped and asked me how I could ever breath with my septum so blasted otu of shape.!!! Needless to say he will be involved with all of this surgically as well, before all is said and done.

    FInally, if you are ever arrested for ANYTHING and send to a dockett room for jailhouse processing . I cant emphasis this one enough, DONT SIT IN THE OPEN BENCH SEAT. This is when you will find a gentlemen setting next to you that will look somewhat suspicious. His partner (unbenounced to you), will be pacing the cell, and giving you nasty looks, until you finally feel that you have to exclaim "what the fuck are you looking a mutherfucker!?!?!" It is a this time the he will wheel his scrauny ass over too you with a stupid grin and get close enough that you can really see his crazy ass smile. He will more than likely be a gentleman of racial persuasion / denomination other than your own. Then you will say,,,, "WELL???" Then its lights out from that asshole sitting next you you with a really ugly elbow. I am sure this info can help someone here in the future.... and sure to get a GOOD CHUCKLE. I still laugh to myself. What a sucker/.

     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  6. Jeton

    Jeton Member

    [:eek:)]nice coda!

    seriously, thanks for the info on the various cpaps, besides apnea i also have mild copd and a highly distorted septum from repeated broken noses...i know exactly what u mean about waking up with a pounding heart and a sense of suffocation. in the last year i've found a lover i'm with almost every night, and at last have someone telling me what i'm like when i'm asleep..he describes episodes where my breathing gets shallower and shallower, then suddenly i start shaking and quivering, finally i gasp dramatically several times and then seem calm again....until it happens again hours later. rinse, repeat.

    still trying to find a sleep clinic that takes Medicaid...

    I wish you good luck and successful treatment, please let us know what ends up working...n keep ur chin up! with a heartrate that goes into burst mode, last thing u wanna add to that is any kind of panic...:cool:
     
  7. pcgizzmo

    pcgizzmo Junior Member

    Yes,

    testosterone administration can cause sleep apnea to worsen or develop. It's also not always related to the thickining of the neck. It can also be attributed to what is known as central apnea. This is an apnea event where the body basically forgets to breath. It's a neurochemical problem that can happen from external testosterone administration.

    For those of you that know you have sleep apnea and arent' on a CPAP your playing w/your life. It's very dangerous to have untreated sleep apnea. Here is a list of what will happen if you have sleep apnea as time goes on.

    1. Insulin sensitivity
    2. memory loss
    3. fat gain
    4. low testosterone
    5 loss of libido/erections
    6. heart trouble

    I know all but the heart trouble but left untreated it's only a matter of time. Sleep apnea causes a hormonal cascade because of the constant waking and inablility to sleep through all stages. The pituitary LH/FSH secretion is disrupted as well as other hormones.

    In regards to a CPAP DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT except a CPAP that constantly blows when you exhale. They make them that stop blowing for a split second as you exhale so you can breath out. This makes a huge difference in compliance. They always try and peddle this low in CPAP for the first one. Don't accept it. You will just be waisting your time and either stop using it upon the first week of getting it or be back getting the one you should have to begin with..

    In regards to the mask. Get a full face mask. MOST people are mouth breathers. Just using nassal pillows will not work for the majority of people because they just open their mouth and breath through it which renders the CPAP useless. GET A FULL FACE MASK from the get go.

    If you follow my advice I promise you will have a much better experience w/your sleep apnea. What I just told you was th sum of 9 years of trials for me.


    Best of luck.
     
  8. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    Great info. I was not aware that the better ones "paused". I will be sure to ask. The set ups I am being quoted are $2-2500 including some start up goodies. Could you tell from the price as to which one I have been quoted??

    I have 2 main concerns (other than living)... (a) I prey that I am not Klausterphoebic about the thing (did I even get close on spelling?) and (b) It seems like such a hard admission of the loss of any verility to admit to myself that i cant living anymore without being assisted to breath. Hows that for a mind breaker. I am guessing however, that once you have been on CPAP for a while and givin all these muscles and tissues a rest from the constant rattling, you could probably sleep without it again for a short while at least. anything to that???

     
  9. pcgizzmo

    pcgizzmo Junior Member

    I can't tell from the price but the machine I have has what's called C-flex that is the feature that pauses. I think it's a Remstar Pro.

    Don't worry about needing the assistance to breath. Lots of people has this issue. At least you are doing something about it. It's not just overweight people either. Bodybuidlers, Pro Football players and skinny women. Its very common.

    I am able to take a nap w/out to much trouble but would never try to go a night w/out it. I am so attached to mine I miss it if I dont' have it on and have had it all over the world w/me when I travel.

    Paul
     
  10. BrianEE93

    BrianEE93 Junior Member

    Remstar Pro is what mine is and it backs off the pressure when you exhale.
     
  11. tbach

    tbach Member

    Good thread. I was diagnosed with Apnea 8 years ago - adapted to CPAP very easily . . . although it initially scared my grandkids - they got over it. The difference was like black and white for me, right from the night they did the sleep study. I awoke the morning after and remarked that things looked brighter, colors more intense, mind clearer - for the first time in many years I experienced what it was like to feel refreshed in the morning from a good night's sleep. Six month's later, I had a heart attack and stent implant which started me down the road to careful eating and lots of exercise - lost 65 pounds over the next 18 months. Had a new sleep study done and my setting was lowered from 8 to 6.

    A few years later, I started TRT - low testosterone, lack of energy, ED, mild depression. For the first two years, I was overdosing on Testosterone (transdermal at the beginning . . . then injections) and constantly fighting high Estradiol. During that time, I noticed that I was falling asleep waiting for red lights to turn green again (pre-CPAP behavior) Returned my CPAP setting to original 8, and things were better, but still not really okay. Had another sleep study a few months ago, and my setting is now at 9 - I have one of the new flex machines, but turned that feature off -it is very noisy and disturbs my wife. Also switched to nose pillow mask . . . much better for me.

    Still had extreme mid-afternoon tiredness . . . just this side of comatose - very hard to stay awake. My new endo looked at my records and suspects that I am insulin resistant/pre-diabetic. He started me on MetforminER, and at my insistance, I began to check blood glucose levels. Discovered that I spiked almost every afternoon - it was the high blood glucose that was knocking me out mid-afternoon. I have cut carbs and learned how to keep glucose levels down, and I feel a lot better. My endo said that there is a strong, although indirect connection between Apnea, Low Testosterone and Insulin Resistance.

    I have run across vague references to the effect that exogenous testosterone worsens apnea, but there seems to be little research to prove it or disprove it. My own experience says that there is a connection. But in my case, it only affected my degree of apnea, and that has been controlled by changing CPAP settings. Not a problem in my book.

    Both CPAP and TRT have changed my life for the better - and they are compatible.
     
  12. soccerismylife

    soccerismylife Junior Member

    i sell sleep apnea machines and actually have an in home sleep study test. Pm me if interested.
     
  13. Jeton

    Jeton Member

    oh hey, i havent seen the infomercial for the inexpensive mouth-device i described, but i have come across the medical name for it's more -expensive cousin that must be custom-made by a dentist...it's called a mandibular advancement device or MAD

    it's from #8 from this link:

    Secrets your dentist doesn't want you to know -- DailyFinance

    thank FARK.com ...:)

    EDIT: fuckit, here's the full excerpt of #8

    Secret #8: Your dentist may not know enough about sleep apnea.

    The most common form of sleep apnea is caused by a blockage of the airway during sleep. It is a pretty scary condition. The patient can stop breathing hundreds of times during the night.

    A common treatment for sleep apnea is Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP). CPAP involves blowing pressurized room air through the airway at high enough pressure to keep the airway open. Many patients find it difficult to adjust to this device and want to avoid surgery, which is another treatment option. As an alternative, your dentist, working with your physician, can custom make a device that guides the lower jaw forward, called a mandibular advancement device or MAD. MAD devices are more comfortable to wear and the compliance rates are much higher than using CPAP.

    If you have (or suspect you have) sleep apnea, here are some questions to ask your dentist:

    Are you a member of the American Academy of Dental Sleep Medicine?

    Do you regularly attend the annual meeting of the Academy?

    Do you work with Ear, Nose and Throat physicians and sleep physicians, where appropriate?

    You can also call sleep centers and ask them what dentists they refer to in your area.

    Sleep Apnea is potentially a very serious medical condition. It is important to do careful due diligence before you select a dentist to treat it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  14. EndoMan

    EndoMan Junior Member

    I had sleep apnea even before starting TRT and TRT made it better. Not sure how it would make it worse other then water retention.

    You can get a used CPAP machine on CL for around 100 bucks. The remstars are good, the c-flex is only good if you don't need the back pressure to keep the palate from dropping. I have tried the c-flex option on my machine and it made me snore so it is turned off.

    There are two types of masks, one covers your nose and mouth (for mouth breathers) and one covers your nose.

    The best are the nose pillows that just plug into your nostrils. (ymmv)

    The key is to get the air pressure right, most docs will set the machine to around 12 cm, this will tend to be too strong and you can adjust it to a lower level yourself.

    These machines are amazing and will give you a great sleep, plus you won't die in your sleep if you have serious apnea.

    My sister's husband died from apnea, he would not take action to improve his condition.
     
  15. Jeton

    Jeton Member

    the CPAP machine just doesn't seem realistic when you toss n turn like i do...perhaps the machine itself would change that, but i suspect i'd render the device useless within 30 minutes of falling asleep....disconnected hose, hose bent in half, hose tangled around my own or partner's body...that's why the MAD seems so much easier...:eek:
     
  16. BBC3

    BBC3 Member

    have had a CPAP (Remstar) for about 2 months now and it works good. It takes some time to get used to. Keeping the hose on your nose is really not the issue as you are trying to maintain good sleep especially during deep sleep, in which case you are not moving. Any wakening it causes is only in lower stage sleep regardless. The overall outcome seems much better. I will tell you that you will wind up with a 500 bill from your insurance. And that is if it is a good insurance. Worth it to me. Of course, I have not paid for mine yet.:)

     
  17. Jeton

    Jeton Member

    :)thanks man, i appreciate that input. i have an older friend who swears by his, but he admits that he doesn't move much in his sleep. by all accounts, i move throughout my sleep cycle, so i'm still skeptical. at least i know i can look for one on craigslist tho...the less money involved, the more willing i am to experiment :)