Stopping TRT cold turkey... bad idea?

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by Tyler81, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. #1
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    I am thinking of just stopping TRT cold turkey.

    I am not getting the benefits I want and my libido especially has completely tappered off in the past few months. My energy levels are also not great and I just feel unhealthy right now (even though I eat and excercise and follow lifestyle that an olympic athlete would be proud of)

    A part of me thinks, even with levels of 250ng/dl if I took high dose vitamin d3, fishoil, ate more redmeat, and maybe cycle something like tongkat ali, I could probably boost that at least 100 points. And if i'm near 400ng/dl thats good enough for me. I dont need a super high TT to feel good which I have discovered.

    I have had some weeks over the past year on the transdermals of amazing well-being and libido. But right now it seems like my body is rejecting the transdermals.

    I dont know why exactly but thats how it feels.

    The benefits just aren't there anymore for some reason.
    (and no, dont suggest injections, they suck for me and i wont do them)

    So I might just stop this shit cold-turkey.

    Thoughts????
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  2. #2
    cvictorg

    cvictorg Active Member

    1) What is your TRT current regimen
    2) What is your age and weight
    3) What is your current diet and exercise regimen
    4) Why do shots suck for you and why will you not do them
     
  3. #3
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    1. 10gram Testim per day
    2. 30 years old 155 pounds
    3. I try to eat no processed foods, no refined sugar, and clean meats, fish, vegetables. I drink 2-3 cups of caffiene per day. I take vitamins such as d3, fishoil.
    4. I dont want to get into why shots suck for me but long story short they cause immediate and dehabiliating depression to the point of suicidal depression. This occurs everytime I try shots and I do not want to go down that road again.
     
  4. #4
    hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Active Member

    Might be time to look into other areas which I have been suggesting for a while. AKA neurotransmitters..
     
  5. #5
    cvictorg

    cvictorg Active Member

    what did your last labs show - other than free and total testosterone

    what did your doctor say about the reaction to shots - the fact hey cause "immediate and dehabiliating depression to the point of suicidal depression"
     
  6. #6
    LW64

    LW64 Active Member

    @ cvic
    He tried injections once. It was sub-q and it was clearly too high a dose. The E2 surge can give emotional sides and depression or something that isnt very distinguishable from it can be one of them.


    @Tyler
    It could do you some good to come off TRT for a while assuming you can handle the low T sides. You might even find that your T and E2 will fall through the sweet spot. Come back to the TD after a week or two and see what happens.

    Why do you always seem to think the issue is ONLY poor absorption INSTEAD OF high E2 when it can be poor absorption IN ADDITION TO elevated E2?

    If you're hell bent on staying on TDs (and you are) you cant do very much about skin thickening and you've already tried just about everything anyway. But, you can do something about elevated E2. You come off it for a while (you're thinking about it now) and come back to it on a reduced dose and ramp up like you just did at 5, 7.5, and now 10 g/day. Then repeat.

    Or, you switch TRT methods (you dont like this idea) and come back to a TD later at a reduced dose.
     
  7. #7
    1erCru

    1erCru Member

    Would it be a terrible idea to try an AI as a trial just to see if there is any therpeutic benefit?
     
  8. #8
    foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Active Member

    tyler you sound like me and what I have gone through in the past
     
  9. #9
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    I have already been looking into the other side for two years. The issue is, these are two seperate issues. I have acknowledged I have neurotransmitter issues and I follow a very strict regime of cardio, vitamins, healthy eating and lifestyle habits to manage it. I have been on pharma anti depressants for over one year previous to this.

    The fact remains, injections exacerbate my depression. Which is why I cannot do them.
     
  10. #10
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    I have told him I didn't feel good on shots the first time we tried them. I did not mention the dehabilitating depression because I do not want him to muddle the waters with mood issues.

    I dont have any depression while on the gels but profound depression on the shots.

    That's all I know for now.
     
  11. #11
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    Actually I am trying an AI right now.

    It hasnt offered much interms of benefits yet.
     
  12. #12
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    I cannot switch TRT methods because there are no methods to switch to.

    My options are the patches, trandermals, or shots. The patches suck. The shots cause immediate dehabiliating depression whether I do a 5mg shot, a 10mg shot, a 50mg shot, or 100mg shot. When I do a 5mg shot, the depression doesnt last that long (maybe 2-3 days) but when I do a 50mg + shot it lasts like a week.

    I am not a sucker for punishment and I am not going to put myself through the hell of shots. I know it works for most guys and it sucks it doesnt work for me. I have tried on three seperate occasions with different doses. As I said, I tried a 10mg shot and I still experienced depression doing that.

    I dont experience any depression on the transdermals which is why yes, I am hellbent on using them for my TRT option if I choose to continue TRT.

    That said, I am seriously thinking of stopping, possibly THIS WEEK, but I have to mentally psyche myself up for it before I jump ship.
     
  13. #13
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    Is the skin thickening a legitimate thing that happens with the transdermals?

    :confused:

    Because it's gotten to the point where the 10g dose I am taking feels less than the 5g dose I was taking for the past two years. I really think my skin IS thickening and adapting and rejecting the the gel through the skin.

    Super frusterating and my options are stay the course and play around with application sites and keep increasing the dose until I am at 20g gel per day (even tho i am only prescribed 10g per day max) or come off and see how I do without it.

    I am leaning towards coming off.
     
  14. #14
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    Yeah. How are you doing anyway?

    What are your natty levels? How is your libido?

    How is your energy levels? Can you workout etc?
     
  15. #15
    LW64

    LW64 Active Member

    Sub-q shots and IM T shots are not the same thing. Some guys can do both and some cant. Considering your issues with TDs, sub-q shots are not indicated for you. I'd say that's been very clear for a long time now. But, you tried it so here's the deal...

    As far as E2 goes, you have 2 issues when you switch from TDs (at a relatively high dose that arent working very well) to shots without taking a break between protocols:

    [1] Your E2 level is already elevated and, in your case, its in a range that's already causing you trouble.

    [2] Now, in addition to [1] you injected sub-q. This can make things worse, not better. When you go from a TD with an already elevated E2 level to shots without taking a break you end up with an E2 spike that builds on that already elevated E2 level.

    The same thing could have happened if it was IM T. I say 'could' because there is no way to know for certain unless you try it...but only AFTER taking a break from TRT between protocols.

    So, it could be a good thing for you to stop TRT for a while just to get the hang of it. If you ultimately go back to TDs it will come in handy in ways I've already described.


    OTOH, I have no frikkin' idea what's going on with your E2 because you never have labs done for it. You cant make intelligent, informed decisions on adjustments to your protocol (TDs, injections, whatever) without keeping track of your TT AND E2 on a regular basis.
     
  16. #16
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    I really want to buy into what you are saying but for some reason I can't.

    Because here's the thing. How do you explain the fact that i've had very high E2 on transdermals and do not experience profound depression on them? And my libido (until recently) has remained fine at that high E2?

    I just dont think E2 is the missing piece of the puzzle for me. I have gone back to E2 many times because alot of people on the internet believe it is the holy grail of feeling good. But I just dont think the depression I experience from injections is E2 related.

    Now there's a small chance that I am totally wrong and you are onto something.

    In which case the best way to test your theory would be to stop transdermals for say two weeks, and then try shots at a lower dose, say 10mg twice per week.

    But again, I am reluctant to go down this path since I have proven to myself time and time again that shots don't feel good for me.

    One thing I have NOT tried however is IM shots. Are you saying IM shots are much different from subq shots? And if yes, why? If it goes back to E2 then I am once again skeptical about the benefit of IM over subq

     
  17. #17
    Tyler81

    Tyler81 Active Member

    I just read BigAK's thread in the sticky's about his restart.

    It seemed he made a few mistakes but after awhile, he got it right and is now natural.

    I tried a restart two years ago and I recovered my levels after a month or two but my libido never came back online even after 7.5 months. At that point I was too frusterated and I went back on Testim.

    During that 7.5 months I tried many things to coax my libido out of hiding including, supplements like Mucuna Puriens, L-Theanine, Wellbutrin, Mirapex, and just time.

    I remember i was fairly patient until about the 6 month mark but then after the 6month mark I became increasingly impatient and increasingly frusterated that I had no libido.

    So remembering these things makes me hesitate about a restart since I did try it in the past (and at that time I had only been ON for 4-5 months, now I have been ON for almost 1.5 years)



    :(
     
  18. #18
    1erCru

    1erCru Member

    Well at least its good that you are trialing an AI because you can at the very least cross it off the list if it doesnt work.

    I think, if all else fails, stopping and reseting and then trying shots is worth it. It does make sense that going straight from gels to shots could have all sorts of undesirable consequences as mentioned above.
     
  19. #19
    m_ob

    m_ob Member

    I always wondered this! From what I understand, I would lose about 40 pounds in muscle and any shot at a libido. I would return to the lower hundreds and my body would take a huge hit. You and I both know how strange it is that the transdermals just stop working, but the shitty truth is that they do. Injections aren't ideal, and for you I still like the idea of both gels and shots, but that would be hard to obtain. I guess you just need to weigh your pros and cons?

    On a side note, are you more concerned with body composition or overall well being from your TRT?
     
  20. #20
    hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Active Member

    Pharma drugs deplete your neurotransmitters and why they stop working after many years. Once building blocks are replaced one can get greater benefit from them. This has been seen in many clinical cases not just my own but by multiple of other medical professionals including well respected psychiatrists. Talking about experimental / subjective science. "Oh if this does not work we will try this". Rather then find out why you are depressed in the first place...I do agree some people are just wired that way, but majority probably never needed meds in the first place. I did not know she existed but, I have a phone call with the female version of Dr Mariano
    some time this week..
     

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