sust 250 var cycle

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. #1 Junior Member

    Just looking at a few idea's for future cycles, The aim would be to put on some lean mass a more athletic look.

    250mg of sust...40mg var ED

    for 12 weeks.

    How much would one expect to gain from this of cycle ?

    pct,, nolva & clomid for 4 weeks maybe add some hcg if you guy think that would be a nice addition.
  2. #2

    Renegade69 Member

    250mg of sustanon every day will wreck you. Try 500mg a week for 10 weeks, no more if its your first time. you could run avavar anywhere from 4-8 weeks. 40mg a day will suffice. You need to do more research dude, and dont overlook pct.
  3. #3 Junior Member

    sorry i ment 250mgs per week, athe var ED.

    and as for pct i thought nolva an clomid would be suffice as i said earliyer
  4. #4

    newbie23 Active Member

    250mg a week isnt enough
  5. #5

    xXGetBigSonXx Member

    I dont/cant understand why people ask this question.... it is a DEAD give away they have no idea what they are doing...

    so this will all vary on what your trying to accoomplish and what your actually doing...
  6. #6

    xXGetBigSonXx Member

    Newbie is right...

    250mg - 2x's a week is what you should be doing... = 500mg/wk
  7. #7

    Reinheart Active Member

    Personally i believe that 250mgs CAN be enough for a first or a second cycle. I am sick and tired of seeing people say, you're not going to gain on 250mgs test. It's the same old wives tale as with d-bol only cycles. Everyones says that d-bol only cycles suck and are not worth it and so on.

    With my later cycle, which was a d-bol only i proved you all wrong. I gained 27lbs without gaining bodyfat and i have kept a good 21-22lbs post cycle.

    It's all in your diet and training, pct and supplementation and getting the body ready for a cycle are very imprortant factors as well.

    Yes, testosterone is the safest and one of the most effective steroids and should be used in every cycle but i don't see anything bad in starting nice and low.

    Let alone the fact that each one is different and reacts differently to steroids. Looks like everyone recomends 500mgs per week just because of that reason.

    I would say, go with 250-300mgs of test and add anavar for a good 8 weeks and see what this stack does for you.
  8. #8

    PS LABS FOUNDER Junior Member

    reinheart - how long have you been off your dbol only cycle?

    Also have you ever done sustanon
    or test
    or anavar?
  9. #9

    Reinheart Active Member

    I've been off d-bol for like a month and all of my gains are here. I have done another cycle with anavar and restandol which i totally loved. I am going to use testoviron 250 for my next cycle.
  10. #10

    PS LABS FOUNDER Junior Member

    yeah anavar rocks if you use high doses
  11. #11

    newbie23 Active Member

    below is why i would never run anything less than 600mg of test-you will actually see more sides from lower doses, and a lower return.

    The following is part of a thread by heavyiron over at MD, the full abstact can be found here..testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

    The following text outlines the benefits and risks of Testosterone administration based on a clinical human trial of 61 healthy men in 2001. The purpose of the trial was to determine the dose dependency of testosterone’s effects on fat-free mass and muscle performance. In this trial 61 men, 18-35years old were randomized into 5 groups receiving weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, 600 mg of Testosterone Enanthate for 20 weeks. They had previous weight-lifting experience and normal T levels. Their nutritional intake was standardized and they did not undertake any strength training during the trial. The only two groups that reported significant muscle building benefits were the 300 and 600 mg groups so any dose lower than 300mg will not be considered in this essay. 12 men participated in the 300 mg group and 13 men in the 600 mg group.
    600mg of Testosterone a week for 20 weeks resulted in the following benefits. Increased fat free mass, muscle strength, muscle power, muscle volume, hemoglobin and igf-1.
    The same 600 mg administration resulted in 2 side effects. HDL cholesterol was negatively correlated and 2 men developed acne.
    The normal range for total T in men is 241-827 ng/dl according to Labcorp and 260-1000 ng/dl according to Quest Laboratories. The normal range for IGF-1 is 81-225 according to Labcorp. Total T and IGF-1 levels were taken after 16 weeks and resulted in the following;

    Total Testosterone
    300 mg group-1,345 ng/dl a 691 ng increase from baseline
    600 mg group-2,370 ng/dl a 1,737 ng increase from baseline

    300 mg group-388 ng/dl a 74 ng increase from baseline
    600 mg group-304 ng/dl a 77 ng increase from baseline

    Body composition was measured after 20 weeks.

    Fat Free Mass by underwater weighing
    300 mg group-5.2kg (11.4lbs) increase
    600 mg group-7.9kg (17.38lbs) increase
    Fat Mass by underwater weighing
    300 mg group-.5kg (1.1lbs) decrease
    600 mg group-1.1kg (2.42lbs) decrease
    Thigh Muscle Volume
    300 mg group-84 cubic centimeter increase
    600 mg group-126 cubic centimeter increase
    Quadriceps Muscle Volume
    300 mg group-43 cubic centimeter increase
    600 mg group-68 cubic centimeter increase
    Leg Press Strength
    300 mg group-72.2kg (158.8lbs) increase
    600 mg group-76.5kg (168.3lbs) increase
    Leg Power
    300 mg group-38.6 watt increase
    600 mg group-48.1 watt increase
    300 mg group-6.1 gram per liter increase
    600 mg group-14.2 gram per liter increase
    Plasma HDL Cholesterol
    300 mg group-5.7 mg/dl decrease
    600 mg group-8.4 mg/dl decrease
    300 mg group-7 of the 12 men developed acne
    600 mg group-2 of the 13 men developed acne

    There were no significant changes in PSA or liver enzymes at any dose up to 600mg. However, long-term effects of androgen administration on the prostate, cardiovascular risk, and behavior are unknown. The study demonstrated that there is a dose dependant relationship with testosterone administration. In other words the more testosterone administered the greater the muscle building effects and potential for side effects.

    Given the results of the study and based on years of personal experience I believe the first time user can safely use between 300-600 mg of testosterone enanthate or cypionate per week for 8-12 weeks. Because it is desirable to have even blood androgen levels I advise at least 2 equal injections per week. Testosterone cypionate peaks within 1-2 days after injection and falls off to almost baseline by day 10. Therefore waiting 7 days between injections of cypionate would cause wide fluctuations in blood androgen levels.

    If a first time user wanted to use 600 mg of cypionate or enanthate per week he would inject 300 mg on Tuesday and another 300 mg on Saturday each week for 10 weeks. When injecting long heavy esters like cypionate with this frequency I tend to have less acne then 1 injection per week.
    There are a number of esters which provide varying release times. Acetate or propionate esters extend the release time of testosterone a couple of days. In contrast, a deconate ester prolongs the release of testosterone about 3 weeks. Testosterone enanthate and cypionate are almost identical esters. The use of an ester allows for a less frequent injection schedule than using a water based testosterone like suspension which has no ester at all and is rapidly in and out of your system after injection. The published release times are not exact and are many times based on a single injection not many multiple injections which can delay the release of the hormone. Other factors affect release times of esters such as scar tissue and the muscle group injected. Only a blood test can confirm when the active hormone has cleared your system.
    Esters not only effect release times but also the potency of the Testosterone as esters make up part of the steroid weight. This must be taken into account when calculating dosages. The longer the release time the less free hormone. For example propionate is about 15% more potent mg. for mg. then enanthate so 500mg of propionate would equal about 575 mg. of enanthate.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  12. #12

    newbie23 Active Member

    I have to disagree completely with the whole dbol only thing as well-if you gained 27 lbs off of it-you could have gained half that with proper diet and training-IMO

    the reason why you did not lose your gains-is because you didnt need the dbol to make them.

    think of it this way with a low dose of 250mg test cycle.

    your body produces 70- 90mg of pure natural testosterone per week-keeping your blood levels at a rough average of 600 -800ng/dl.

    you can not compare, directly, synthetic exogenous testosterone to your own natural production. the first reason is their is a big difference between injecting in a muscle-and large amounts seeping into your bloddstream at a time and your body releasing NATURAL test in your system constantly is much more efficient. this is why it takes the average TRT patient- 150mg per week to get them into mid normal range.

    its like trying to compare apples to oranges

    #1 why take a low dose when it causes more sides and less gains?
    #2 if your gaining 20-30 lbs on 250mg a week test cycles, your not ready for the juice.
  13. #13

    PS LABS FOUNDER Junior Member

    i pretty much totally agree - if you gained 25lbs off dbol only and kept it - 15 of those lbs could have been done and kept with just u naturally
  14. #14

    Reinheart Active Member

    I am aware of the study you posted and i agree but you have to take under consideration that only very few people have the patience to reach their genetic potential/limit to the max and then use steroids so i don't see anything wrong going with 300mgs test and d-bol or anavar for a first run.

    Of course you can use just half a gram of test for your first cycle, but where do you go from there???

    There are logs all over the internet from people anywhere 180-210lbs who have gained 20 pounds + and still gain from low dose test cycles and there are guys which report that high doses of testosterone fucked them up (acne or gyno wise) and when they used less for their next cycle they didn't experience severe side effects.

    Granted, the more you use the more gains you'll see but after a point side effects increase as well. I firmly believe that side effects can be controlled with much more ease with two weekly injections.

    No roller-coster effect = less sides.

    Regarding the d-bol only cycles, you are absolutely wrong, If there is one single drug that is better than test in the short run, that's d-bol. It's even twice as anabolic as testosterone is. So, if one's diet is clean and uses an AI, he is able to gain just fine on that.

    There are several people that gain an average of 15-20 pounds and only do short cycles (usually 6 weekers) with d-bol only or test prop + d-bol.

    Besides, there is a research which indicates that the combination of oxandrolone and a low dose of testosterone can give a lot more muscle mass than a test only cycle.

    Never bash something you haven't tried yourself.

  15. #15

    buddy1 Member

    There's another thread around here with a similar topic. I think they were talking about using 200mg per week. First off, I'm all for low dose cycles. You can always add more later. But, If you're going to shut down your own test production, I think it should be worthwhile. 250mg per week would be the least I would bother with. I think sust is a bad idea for 250mg per week. The short esters are gone pretty quick, and it will take awhile for blood levels to build. Enanthate would be a better choice IMO. If you had 250mg amps you could even inject every 5 or 6 days, instead of every 7 days. This would give you an average dose of 350mg or 290mg per week.

    I wouldn't run the anavar for longer than 8 weeks.
  16. #16

    Reinheart Active Member

    Agreed! That's some good advise! :)
  17. #17

    PS LABS FOUNDER Junior Member

    have you ever tried test?
  18. #18

    PS LABS FOUNDER Junior Member

    have you ever injected test or injected anything?
  19. #19

    PS LABS FOUNDER Junior Member


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