Testicular Atrophy Recovery Years After Cycle?

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by Stev7667, Mar 16, 2011.

  1. #1
    Stev7667

    Stev7667 Junior Member

    I did a 16 or 17 week Test/tren cycle about 5 years ago. I ran some tamoxifen afterward for abiut 20 days but my testicles have failed to return to their full size years later.

    I am 18 days into a HMG/hcg/Tamoxifen attempted kick start... and i'm not seeing a whole lot of results... balls are hanging lower but not much bigger.

    I'm doing HMG 75 iU EOD HCG 1000 IU 3x week, 10 mg Tamoxifen ED.

    I have another 10 days worth of HMG left another 7 weeks of HCG left and tons of tamoxifen.

    My question is, is there any hope of recovering size after this long or should I just give up? I could get more HMG (its expensive thou) and I could easily keep running HcG for up to 6 months if necessary.

    Note: my balls are 26.5 ML... I believe they were close to twice there current size previously.
     
  2. #2
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    Unfortunately I don't have any familiarity at all with use of HMG and therefore just don't know. I do wish you the best of results.

    This would also include in finding out what is causing the pain issue and what the cure of that may be.
     
  3. #3
    Cronk

    Cronk Junior Member

    I researched HMG a few years back and really didn't think there was enough advantage to using it. The wifey had some left over from her fertility MD visits. We ended up just tossing it out after it expired. Your small testicles may or may not represent a low T level. I would absolutely go to your doc and get your T levels checked. If they are low, jump on the bandwagon and get script test. If your T is withing normal limits, screw it....live with small balls.
     
  4. #4
    A-bombman

    A-bombman Member

    don't even bother with your cycle...

    set yourself up with a doctor. If it's been 5 years you need to call a doctor, you should of called one 6 months after they didn't come back.
     
  5. #5
    Stev7667

    Stev7667 Junior Member

    Last time I had test lvl run it was 804 (250-1100) I was only 4 days off letrozole thou before the test.

    Donno what a doc is gonna do for me, seeing as my test lvls are pretty normal... besides I;ve been to a Uro, endo and GP and got no-where.
     
  6. #6
    MR10X

    MR10X Active Member

    hcg directly stimulates your balls to produce test,if it doesnt get you back to normal none of those other things like clomid,nolvadex,or drugs like that will do anything.The HCG will stimulate your balls to produce test and clomid and Nolvadex will help you deal with the estrogen to prevent gyno, when your balls are back to size stop the HCG and continue the clomid and nolvadex to get your other hormones back like they should be.
     
  7. #7
    Stev7667

    Stev7667 Junior Member

    I have read that testicular atrophy can be recovered from long term shut downs but it can take months of hcg at doses of 2000-5000 a week. So far I seem to be seeing some limited results 20 days on.
     
  8. #8
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    Excellent! :)

    Definitely give it time. The process can be slow but this is an area where progress does add up and can continue for quite some time.

    But, if you continue to feel there is inflammation, I would still seek the cause of that, even if it is a frustrating experience of going through many doctors.
     
  9. #9
    Stev7667

    Stev7667 Junior Member

    I don't feel any inflammation, I am also trying to recover from persistant finasteride side effects as well... that stuff is just terrible...
     
  10. #10
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    Well then, very hopefully the continued protocol will do well for you. It is entirely possible I think.
     
  11. #11
    A-bombman

    A-bombman Member

    and if it doesn't work you should see a doctor asap.
     
  12. #12
    Stev7667

    Stev7667 Junior Member

    Yeah I went to a Uro two years ago... he looked at my balls and said oh they're not so bad I've seen juice heads with BB sized balls. And at the time my test lvl came back 552 which was within normal but low for a 25 year old. He didn't give me shit. NO hcg, no clomid no nothing... doctors are not worth @#$% unless they are ones familiar with steroid user conditions.

    Whats up with the asap too man? I've been like this for 5 years...
     
  13. #13
    surfintitan68

    surfintitan68 Junior Member

    anyone know where to get some hcg, my dr. isn't returning my emails. Need some soon
     
  14. #14
    IanMac

    IanMac Junior Member

    I found mine at Dr. Google's office.
     
  15. #15
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    I can't guarantee all results will be good, but Googling "escrow pharmacy" can yield good results for non-controlled substances.

    (HCG is not a controlled substance in most states.)
     
  16. #16
    Shaolin

    Shaolin Junior Member

    You used finasteride and you are trying to revive your balls with hcg??
    Good luck.
    Just check your prostate before hand, because finasteride shuts down your immunity locally within your prostate and prostatitis is a common culprit if you are also sexually active.
    If you try to use HcG whilst having low dht (low hanging balls is the typical picture) the only thing you will get is further estradiol spikes and your balls will drop further in size.

    Check with transrectal ultrasound if finasteride did any damage to your prostate. If no inflammation is present go measure your androstanediol-glucuronide levels to see how low your T to dht conversion rate has been set to.
    If its very low, then you prob have altogether hypothalamic suppresion, which is prob the case since your T levels are medium-low. The only thing you can do in your case is keep pumping and lifting to bring it up, don't go the medicine way, nothing will happen. Noone has succeeded post-fin and i bet you won't be the first to manage, its a whole HPA downregulation problem, not only HPA. You are thinking the wrong way. To bring back your balls you need to speed up the activity of 5-ar II.

    Don't bother a lot with SERMS either, they might shrink your balls even more if you suffer from post-finasteride sides.
     
  17. #17
    Stev7667

    Stev7667 Junior Member

    My 3-adiol-G is 256 (260-1500) so yes I am suffering from the typical PFS... which since I have last posted here is currently ruining my life.

    I am in contact with people researching the condition however and I like you believe the main cause is low 5-AR-2 activity in perhephiral tissue. AKA low tissue androgen metabolism.

    How this was caused in truely a mystery however, I believe it must have something to do with adrenals and or immune activity.
     
  18. #18
    BBC3

    BBC3 Well-Known Member

    1. You did not give any stats that I saw. Aging naturally is a bitch. Evil things happen between 25-30years.
    2. How do they actually measure testicular volume? You made no mention but I have also been wondering how Prostate volume is measured if you know??
    3. I dont think you are going to get any real results from hcg sizewize. It seems like the size increase (general testicular swelling) effect goes away with experience.
    4. Read some of my thoughts on actual hormone realized metabolism rates vs. serum counts and then reconsider your lab results as they related to your current physiscal composition.

    I am not a physician....:)

     
  19. #19
    Stev7667

    Stev7667 Junior Member

    Dude, I had a ultrasound to measure their size.

    And about the aging thing... you gotta be kidding me...

    I haven't had morning wood since I was 22 cuz of the fina/roids,,, prolly more so the fina.

    Test: 822
    Free Test: 188
    DHT 35, and 59
    E2: 32
    3adiolg: 256 (only thing that is out of range)
    Cortisol is also high... but thats probably cuz I've been on my deathbed for awhile now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  20. #20
    Shaolin

    Shaolin Junior Member

    Once again

    Because i am in the same situation

    Using roids dont matter that much if you have used finasteride because you have entered a non-hormonal path by using it.

    This is the immune system finasteride has messed up with apart from the hormonal (low 5-arII activity).

    You have to be sure that if you are sexually active all them last 5 years that your testicles are low in size you have no active inflammatory process or any microbes in your prostate balls

    There is only one way to find out, actually two
    First is to stick a probe up your anus and check for INTRAPROSTATIC INFLAMMATION
    2nd to do a prostatic fluid culture.

    If there is presence of any sort of bacteria then trying to restore testicular size whilst finasteride has been used is in vain, at least for now.

    If however you have managed to succeed to bring back your balls even slight, then there might be some chance but the pathway is this in all cases

    First restore any possible inflammation with antibiotic cocktails
    Then try the nolva/hcg approach.

    The low androstenediol-gluc values indicate long lasting suppression of 5-ar II activity which means also low or improper cortisol metabolism so greater inflammatory probability.

    So, go for a transRECTAL ultrasound
    See if there is inflammation in your prostate
    Test your prostatic fluid for pathogens through Stamey-Mears (if your prostatic fluid is white, or cloudy then you have pathogens)
    Then after receiving proper antibiotic cocktail treatment- best and most potent mixes are prulifloxacin-metronidazole, or and clindamycin, depending on pathogens always. Find a proper urologist to give you at least one quiinolone and one mycin family antibiotic to cover for intracellular and extracellular activity. Most common pathogens are staph, chlamydia, enteroccoci but others can be present simultaneously. If your 5-ar II responded properly you would not have testicular issues only prostate but this is what happens in many finasteride users, they shrink their prostates initially and dormant pathogens get out of the controlling effect of dht and cortisol and spread to other tissues causing a long lasting inflammatory process which may not even be recognised for years.

    Once the inflammation is its in lower scale then you can try pumping testicles back up
    If you do this whilst inflammation is present you only risk getting more problems since neither proper dht is pumped to sustain testicular needs and pathogens get out of control and can affect surrounding tissues

    Did you ever in all those years experience any sort of prostatitis related sides like, pain when urinating, sitting, stinging pains in penis, warmth around groing area or penis, warmth, exreme cold in testicles, bad morning erections, or premature ejactulation??

    If yes then there is a high probability your prostate,urogenital region is inflammed and you are trying in vain to pump up the testicle ignoring an inflammatory process going on
     

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