testicular atrophy with trt?

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by toc67guru, Dec 26, 2003.

  1. #1
    toc67guru

    toc67guru Junior Member

    i was just wondering if testicular atrophy was a unfortunate eventuality that one had to accept when on testosterone replacement therapy?what is the usual dosage of test given per week while on trt ,would nolvodex also be needed?do people use low dosage hcg weekly to prevent testicular atrophy or long term do you have to accept the benefits of trt and accept this side effect is a necessary evil.this is purely a query i have in relation to the cosmetic drawback to having small testicles.
     
    m_ob likes this.
  2. #2
    Vicious cycle

    Vicious cycle Junior Member

    Bump, I'm wondering the same thing.
     
  3. #3
    kemo

    kemo Junior Member

    Good Question

    Very good question,

    The answer is "it depends". :) Testicular atrophy will occur anytime the HPTA believes the body is getting higher than normal levels of testosterone. The HPTA signals for a reduction in LH and FSH, which causes the lydig cells to slow production. Anytime the testes start to produce less, they start shrinking.

    However, this will depend on dose. When you start TRT, you will get a blood test to determine your T levels. If you are in the normal band, you will most likely be placed on 200mg/week of testosterone cypionate. This level is only likely to cause a small amount of atrophy over a long period of time.

    If you are in the lower range, you will likely receive 400mg/week. Again, since the body is already at a lower level, it is doubtful you will get any significant atrophy.

    Once you go past what your body thinks is normal, you will get the atrophy....however that is going to vary from one person to the other, vary based on dose, and vary based on length of cycle.

    If you do notice atrophy, it is not nolvadex that will help you. Nolvadex is an anti estrogen that competes with E for the receptors in the body. This prevents gyno, weight gain, moodiness, etc. What you need for atrophy is hcg, or human chorionic gonadatropin. This mimics the bodies own production of LH, which causes the testes to fire back up again.....allowing them to come back to regular size. However, HCG does not to normalize the HPTS, so you will need clomid therapy once you stop the T and HCG.

    It really isn't as complicated as this last paragraph sounded. If you need some more exact dose, etc....let me know.

    Hope this helps.....

    Kemo
     
  4. #4
    SWALE

    SWALE Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine

    200mg will completely suppress almost every man's HPTA. I have seen profound testicular atrophy on only 75mg of test cyp per week.

    My TRT protocols include small, regular use of hcg, every week. This not only mainatains the testes, but alos has other healthful benefits as well.
     
  5. #5
    SWALE

    SWALE Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine

    I'd be happy to.

    hcg also stimulates the conversion of CHOL to pregenenolone, which feeds all three metabolic pathweays which start with CHOL. Pregnenolone canb be suppressed in men who are HPTAS suppressed. This I believe produces a more natural state for these men. As proof, the heavy AAS athletes who use HCG regularly tell me they no longer feel that burned-out, edgy feeling they normally get after a few weeks on a big cycle. I am proud of this, because I was the first to figure this one out.

    I just read a study which shows that HCG promotes the production of small amounts of naturally occuring nandrolone by the body, which would also be suppressed in TRT patients.

    I think we will find, as time goes on, that LH has influence at many tissues. HCG, as its analog, would then, as well.

    My guys who are now using a new TRT protocol i am developing which includes small injections of HCG every day, as well as a half-dose of Upjohn test cyp per week, tell me their libido goes through the roof on this system. I can tell you from personal excperience this is true. There is just something very, very special about HCG, and you can quote me on that.

    It just makes sense to me that anyone who suppresses their HPTA should add in regular, small amounts of HCG to their regimens.
     
  6. #6
    SWALE

    SWALE Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine

    I don't know of any negative sides to reduced FSH, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be any.

    Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Serano product (yet). At this time, I do not see any justification for the added cost of adding in HMG to a TRT protocol, absent failed and desired fertility.
     
  7. #7
    VDC

    VDC Junior Member

    Have no patients complained about reduced ejaculate volume???I've communicated with a few BBers that were disturbed by this,,,At the time I didn't know HMG would help in this,,,BTW I registered with A4M great site,,,VDC
     
    m_ob likes this.
  8. #8
    SWALE

    SWALE Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine

    I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would care about ejaculatory volume--unless they are in the porn industry. Being able to attain and maintain an erection, then achieve orgasm following mutual sexual satisfaction are the issues, IMPO.

    I don't know what effect FSH would have on ejaculatory volume.
     
  9. #9
    greygoose

    greygoose Junior Member

    ....

    after being on aas for three years straight i stopped. i followed the suggested hcg and clomid post recovery. however, my balls didn't go back to normal and my libido is very low. so, i decided to go see a urologist. im getting my blood work done tommorow. i asked him about hcg and clomid, and he told me that is not a good way to get test running again. he said that its best to use the test cream or the test patch. he also said that it might take 6 months, if ever, for my test to get back to normal.
     
  10. #10
    SWALE

    SWALE Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine

    Supplementing testosterone WILL NOT restart the HPTA. In fact, it will suppress it even more.

    Although I don't think it works often enough, clomid or nolvadex can work. hcg is added only if testicular atrophy is pronounced, as it too will supress the HPTA.

    The patches cause a contact dermititis in about 2/3's of the patients who try them. androgel is the best of the transdermals.
     
  11. #11
    seand95

    seand95 Junior Member


    its simple, a bigger load=better orgasim
     
  12. #12
    SWALE

    SWALE Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine

    Not true.
     
  13. #13
    VDC

    VDC Junior Member

    Anybody remember Erhard Seminar Training(EST)???They taught that in life there are 3 basic things people seek,,,1. More 2. Better 3. Different,,,as far as the carnal side of things go its true,,,Now the lad said more=a better orgasm,,,He didn't say a more intense orgasm,,,To some women a large load would be a sign that they really turned you on increasing their psychological pleasure,,,To some it would just be gross,,,I can't believe we spend so much time on this topic,,,VDC
     
  14. #14
    SD1959

    SD1959 Junior Member

    On average,what is the "small" daily dosage in mgs?
     
  15. #15
    SWALE

    SWALE Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine

    I'm with you, VDC.

    hcg is dosed in IU's, not mgs. 250IU is a good starting dose.
     

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