Testim gel applied to scrotum (?)

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by bafriend, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. #1

    bafriend Junior Member

    I've read that Testim gel should not be applied to the scrotum.


    What harm, if any, could be done if Testim were to be applied to the scrotum?

    Since the skin of the scrotum is 40 times more permeable than that of the shoulders and upper arms, does it stand to reason that if Testim were applied to the scrotum that there would be substantially more absorption and bioavailability of testosterone than if otherwise applied to the shoulders and upper arms? :confused:

    If one can tolerate the mild pain of Testim, an alcohol-based gel, applied to the scrotum, is it othewise okay to apply some or all of the gel to the scrotum?

    Please advise. Thanks.
  2. #2

    cpeil2 Junior Member

    It is formulated to be applied to the skin on your torso and limbs, not the scrotum. Yes, you will absorb more T if you apply to your scrotum . . way more, probably too much more. It will also cause your DHT level to skyrocket.
  3. #3

    lepiricus Junior Member

    From what I have read, the scrotum is more permeable alright, but this is a bad thing. It will cause T levels to spike and taper down rather than slow steady state absorption. I think this coupled with the fact that you must rotate application points would not be good. The one or two days a week you would apply to your scrotum would be a "fastball" to your hormone system when it is used to slow pitch softball.
  4. #4

    Weatherlite Junior Member

    Primarily it's the DHT. More enzyme resides in the scrotal skin than anywhere else on your body. It may boost some of your feel-good at first but you'll suffer the ill effects of extremely high DHT after a while.
  5. #5

    BigPooka Junior Member

    I was told DO NOT apply to your scrotum by my doc. He told me that since it was more sensitive that I could stroke out.
    Just go by what the insert says and put it on your arms. 5mg will probally put you in the 350-600 range, or atleast thats what I found by personal exp and according to the insert.

    Good luck.

  6. #6

    Sunkist Junior Member

    So, whats the problem with increased DHT anyway... other than hair and middle aged breakouts? Less E is a plus.

    Remember where the first patches were put? Studies showed most effects magnified with scrotal penetration.
  7. #7

    cpeil2 Junior Member

    But weren't the patches formulated for scrotal application?
  8. #8

    mranak Junior Member

    The standard transdermals already elevate DHT...usually well above the 'normal' range. But to apply these products to the scrotum would cause an excessive and extreme increase in DHT. When your prostate is so swollen that you are unable to pee and they put an cathode up your penis, then you will understand why this is not a good thing. (okay, so I made that up to be funny).
  9. #9

    mranak Junior Member

    There are:
    1) Patches for scrotal application
    2) Patches for non-scrotal application

    They are each very different in their delivery.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2005
  10. #10

    Sunkist Junior Member

    I have done scrotal application of Transdermal T compounded at 10% for three years now. I regularly run the normal panels, at first 3 months, now at 6 months. Will go to a year soon. I have got it to constants by trial and error.

    First, I have had no elevation of DHT past the T/DHT ratio I had before starting TRT. I do believe the scrotum is a better reservoir and loses less hormone than other areas. DHT keeps E down.

    Second, DHT has no relationship to BPH or to CA. Many physicians world wide give DHT for same. E ratios are the problem not DHT. You can do a PubMed as well as I, and I have.

    So, What is the problem with increasing a hormone that has the same erotogenicity as T and much more virilizing effect?
  11. #11

    kidsxx5 Junior Member

    I did try Testim on my scrotum...once. OUCH! Like having a blow torch on your balls.
  12. #12

    mranak Junior Member

    I suspect that you are not using the equivalent to androgel or Testim. For example, you are most likely using much less cream than 5-10g.

    That is surprising. Even most guys on Androgel applied to the skin find their T/DHT ratio changes. For example, the increase in DHT from a transdermal is most often a good bit more than than from test cyp injection (assuming dosages are both in line to elevate testosterone the same).

    It absorbs more, but testosterone is not lost through the skin.

    Not exactly. But DHT can't be aromatized into estrogen like testosterone. So in that manner, E is not elevated from DHT.

    DHT does not cause prostate cancer, but it can be a contradiction for any prostate cancer that does occur. Simiar situation for breat cancer in women. The estrogen doesn't cause the cancer, but if the cancer is estrogen dependent, then reducing estrogens (or blocking them) is a viable and common therapy.

    As for BPH, there is certainly a link between DHT and BPH. I'm not saying that they are directly correlated, but there is a link between the two nevertheless. For men with BPH, reducing DHT helps with the BPH. And I have seen AAS users that have no BPH, but upon having massive amounts of DHT (or derivatives of DHT), it becomes a problem.

    There isn't a problem with increasing DHT and this is in fact one of the benefits to the transdermals. Dr. John Crisler considers twice the top of the normal range for DHT to be the practical limit, and I think that is very resonable.

    You see, applying a full 5g of Androgel to the scrotum will likely elevate DHT _far_ above twice the top of the normal range.

    As for testosterone creams forulated and dosed appropriately for application to the scrotum, that is perfectly fine.... assuming that followup bloodwork indicates DHT is maintained at 'appropriate' levels.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2005
  13. #13

    cpeil2 Junior Member

    Of course, one would have to have one very large scrotum to apply 5g of Androgel to it.
  14. #14

    pmgamer18 Junior Member

    I was and some others guys at the H2 group were putting it on the testis and it drove up my DHT up to 1687.1 range 36 to 573 pg/mL. And it drove my prostate nuts I had a low pain and took for ever to pee. Put it on there and see for your self. We tryed it thinking it would help with libido and ED it made no difference.
  15. #15

    mranak Junior Member

    What are you trying to say? :)
  16. #16

    mranak Junior Member

    Thanks for this little bit of data. I've heard it from others, but you are one more person which helps to confirm that prostate issues can occur with grossly elevated DHT.
  17. #17

    Sunkist Junior Member

    I use compounded 10% creme. As I said, I have done it for several years. I tried androgel and it did little and cost 10x as much. I just want the 10mg daily secretion levels to come from someplace and I go 5 on 2 off and check periodically to see that I am still making the natural stuff at the level I was before TRT. I actually shoot for 10 to 15 mg outputs as I think the receptors are not a active at my age, nearly 50.

    I do my panels. I disagree on the DHT. I have a lot of Pub Meds and am a health care provider, with a physiological chem background pre doctorial. I know the new studies on PSA show it of little value, but I think it is a good monitor for us doing TRT. I have noticed that my T/E has far more effect on PSA than T levels, or DHT levels. Remember many physicians give DHT for BPH. E is the problem IMHO. Elevate E and you have prostatitis.

    I agree on pre existing CA. Just not on anything else. As I recall the only thing proven elevated by randomized retrospectives was testicular cancer. I guess I will take my chances there... as all doing TRT do.
  18. #18

    Sunkist Junior Member

    Grossly elevated yes... or skewed ratios. Either is not good. When I look at my panels I want levels of a 20 year old. I have slightly elevated levels to that mark of DHT... but I want the E to fit there too. It all has to match and I believe regulating the E is far more important than the DHT. That is the reason BPH is an older man disease... not DHT, but E causing lowered T levels and too much fat.

    I also believe each of us is different and each needs to find his own best way of doing TRT. It takes a lot of work and experimenting to do so. One size does not fit all.
  19. #19

    mranak Junior Member

    That makes no sense whatsoever.

    No they don't. They most often prescribe finasteride or dutasteride, which signiciantly lowers DHT. Not saying that this is the best thing to do, but that is what most often happens.

    I haven't done a lot of research regarding BPH, but I am inclined to agree that the root cause is usually elevated E rather than DHT.

    But to be clear, I agree that DHT is a good and improtant hormone. I also agree that estrogen and most specifically estradiol needs to be regulated to appropriate levels:

    testosterone: Upper part of the normal range
    DHT: Typically okay if it goes as high as twice the top of the normal range. That is what Dr. John Crisler limits it to and that seems resonable to me.
    Estradiol and perhaps also, total estogens: Managed to about the midpoint of the normal range. Not too low and not too high.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2005
  20. #20

    jasc51 Junior Member

    Would an option be to apply a smaller dose to the scrotum, maybe a fourth of the tube?

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