To Grizz, Max Rep, Animal Mass or others with love

Discussion in 'Training Forum' started by Preacher, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. Preacher

    Preacher Junior Member

    OK guys i'm been doing the 5x5 for almost 2 years, I have switched it up with some of my own 4 day routines, as well as Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training

    I'm 31, 5'9" ish 210lb. I my goal is to be around 190-200 by summer. I want to shed some more BF. I would like the abbs to be some what noticable as well as the tapered V look in the back.

    What i'm needed or would like is a NEW workout plan, reps, sets, days, and what workout movement.

    I challenge you guys, to get me beach ready :D

  2. MaxRep

    MaxRep Member

    Hey Preacher, glad to see you're hanging around and doing good.

    It sounds like your workouts are going well and you've done your homework on various styles.

    Now let's talk about your cardio training and diet... because that's where the answers lie for your goal of dropping BF and getting those abs to shine through.

    Best regards,
  3. Preacher

    Preacher Junior Member

    Cardio is slim to none, I play hockey once to twice a week. Diet well umm what diet.

    I have been keeping track of caloires for the past couple weeks and some days I may hit 2000 others 3000 I don't eat junk fook and stuff though, not a huge fan of deserts. My desert would be another steak. But I eat what the wife makes me.... Tonight is spaghetti. What would be I reasonable diet? I use to run every morrning, but I got too competitive... I believe u are supose to go slow for 20 minutes to burn the fat, well thats how I start then I thought geez I could beat that time and distance. I didn't loose much weight but got to 10k in 28.63 minutes, no record, but I was happy :) Give me some ideas guys, I would love to through them around...

    1. should I increase my workout to 4 days more reps + Cardio
    2. Decrease workout to 3x week + cardio
    3. fuck the workout and hit the pavement (well snow)

    PS I hate cario :)

    Yes, the photo next to my name is not me. Its way to skinny.
  4. dennis

    dennis Member

    preacher..In my opinion for whatever that's worth....i would definately get away from the 5x5 and go lighter weights and higher reps with shorter rest in between sets...step up cardio and lift 4-5 times per week..cardio maybe 6 days per week.Do not fuck the work out ! keep it up just re -adjust everything away from the clean as hell bout tren ace/prop ?
  5. Preacher

    Preacher Junior Member

    Thanks Dennis, I will be doing 4x week workout with high reps for sure, with more intensity.

    Monday upper body
    Tuesday Lower body
    Wednesday off
    Thursday upper body
    Friday Lower body

    I will be doing HIIT. Should it be done every morning or maybe 3x week? It will be done around 6:30-7:00am then breakfast after that.

    2-5mins of warm-up

    20 seconds (sprint) max rate
    10 seconds walk

    20 sec max
    10 sec walk

    Repeat for a total of 8 mins

    Then 2 mins cool down.

    As for a cycle, nope. I just finished one about 7 weeks ago (12 weeker Test enth 500/w). will be waiting another 5 weeks or so before hitting another one maybe longer.......Might only do 1 a year who knows see how I feel I guess...
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2007
  6. MaxRep

    MaxRep Member

    Given everything you've outlined above, I have a very simple recommendation for you that will get you to your goals in about 4 months.

    You don't have to change anything you're currently doing. All you do is take an ECA stack 30 minutes before you go to the gym. Then, when you get to the gym, get on a stair climber at a moderate pace for 30 minutes. Go do your workout, go home and have a protein drink and continue on with your daily activities.

    It won't be fast and dramatic but by this Summer, June, you should be able to hit the beach looking tight and buffed out.

    Good luck,
  7. Preacher

    Preacher Junior Member

    You recomened ECA? I have always thought ECA stacks were a crock of shit. Does it really work? I am ok doing it the old fashion way, with hard work. But if it helps why not. Is it true that your body can become Imune to Ephedra after a weeks time? who sells real ECA now a days?

    Thanks for the replies guys....
  8. MaxRep

    MaxRep Member

    Hmmmm... well my friend, I see you're not a fan of scientific research... :)

    The following is just one of many such studies. Of course when the big drug companies started seeing these results from over the counter products, they couldn't lobby for their removal from the market place fast enough.

    1: Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1993 Feb;17 Suppl 1:S69-72.
    Safety and efficacy of long-term treatment with ephedrine, caffeine and an ephedrine/caffeine mixture.
    * Toubro S,
    * Astrup AV,
    * Breum L,
    * Quaade F.
    Research Department of Human Nutrition, Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Fredriksberg, Copenhagen, Denmark.

    In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by diet (4.2 MJ/day) and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20mg), caffeine (200mg) or placebo 3 times a day for 24 weeks. 141 patients completed this part of the study. All medication was stopped between week 24-26 in order to catch any withdrawal symptoms. From week 26 to 50, 99 patients completed treatment with the ephedrine/caffeine compound in an open trial design, resulting in a statistically significant (p = 0.02) weight loss of 1.1kg.

    In another randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled 8 week study on obese subjects we found the mentioned compound showed lean body mass conserving properties. We conclude that the ephedrine/caffeine combination is effective in improving and maintaining weight loss, further it has lean body mass saving properties. The side effects are minor and transient and no withdrawal symptoms have been found.

    Other studies include aspirin and it too adds benefits.

    Best regards,
  9. MaxRep

    MaxRep Member

    Buy it separately.

    Good luck,
  10. MaxRep

    MaxRep Member

    Here's a study using the full ECA stack:
    1: Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1993 Feb;17 Suppl 1:S73-8.
    Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin: safety and efficacy for treatment of human obesity.
    * Daly PA,
    * Krieger DR,
    * Dulloo AG,
    * Young JB,
    * Landsberg L.
    Dept of Medicine, Harvard Medical School, Boston.

    The safety and efficacy of a mixture of ephedrine (75-150mg), caffeine (150mg) and aspirin (330mg), in divided premeal doses, were investigated in 24 obese humans (mean BMI 37.0) in a randomized double blind placebo-controlled trial. Energy intake was not restricted. Overall weight loss over 8 weeks was 2.2kg for ECA vs. 0.7 kg for placebo (p < 0.05). 8 of 13 placebo subjects returned 5 months later and received ECA in an unblinded crossover. After 8 weeks, mean weight loss with ECA was 3.2 kg vs 1.3 kg for placebo (p = 0.036). 6 subjects continued on ECA for 7 to 26 months. After 5 months on ECA, average weight loss in 5 of these was 5.2 kg compared to 0.03 kg gained during 5 months between studies with no intervention (p = 0.03). The sixth subject lost 66 kg over 13 months by self-imposed caloric restriction. In all studies, no significant changes in heart rate, blood pressure, blood glucose, insulin, and cholesterol levels, and no differences in the frequency of side effects were found. ECA in these doses is thus well tolerated in otherwise healthy obese subjects, and supports modest, sustained weight loss even without prescribed caloric restriction, and may be more effective in conjunction with restriction of energy intake.
  11. Girth

    Girth Member

    Don't forget to drop the A as well. No need for the aspirin. I can't cite the study so I won't say what the effect is, I just know you shouldn't use it. You will lose the nervous system excitation very quickly if using multiple doses per day. But the fat burning effects have been shown to last for a year. Which I think was something that was kind of buried in the posts by MaxR. Which by the way were quite nice of him.

    As for changing your training, screw that. Diet and cardio will lose the fat. And in fact, I've found over numerous trials, that I retain more mass with lower rep training while dieting. The overall workload is the same, just lower reps. Why you ask? If your energy reserves are lower, you don't have the glycogen stores to push out higher rep sets. But lower food intake doesn't impact sets of 3-6 as much. Thus, you just up the # of sets, lower the reps, and you still have the volume needed for hypertrophy. But the weights you are using are still at quite a high level, thus holding on to more mass. Makes so much sense when you think about it.

    I've tried to cut with no cardio and a perfect diet. It may be possible, and in fact desirable for those that have the genes. But most of us will find better results with cardio. The type will depend on your recovery abilities however.
  12. Preacher

    Preacher Junior Member

    Thank you all for the time. I always feel so much love here.... I will look around for some ECA without the A or use the A for short period. If I do I will find some doc with some Calipers and keep you all posted on the results...

    Girth I love the low rep high weight myself but sometimes I need to change. If anything it keeps me humble when I have lower a ton of weight to get 5+ more reps :)

    PS where the hell is Animal mass and Grizz?
  13. Girth

    Girth Member

    Here is a link to the ephedrine:

    As for the C - from experience I will say that No Doz are easiest on my stomach. But Jet Alert is dirt cheap and available at Super Targets, right next to the No Doz.

    AM is at Midwest Barbell. It's a closer knit group there that is mainly focused on powerlifting or Strongman. Not much BB interest there, which is why he hangs out there. Grizz has popped up now and again as of late.
  14. Preacher

    Preacher Junior Member

    Now what type of dosage does everyone use or recomend?
  15. MaxRep

    MaxRep Member

    These numbers can be adjusted to fit you depending on how you're affected but roughly: 25-50mg of ephedrine, 200mg caffeine and 300mg aspirin.

    I can still buy ephedrine in foil packs at my local discount vitamin store... pop the ephedrine with a couple aspirin and drink a couple cups of coffee and off to the gym.

    Good luck,
  16. Grizzly

    Grizzly Member

    Grizz has been living with a guy who doesn't pay the internet bill. ;) Now that I'm back online....

    I'll have to take a minute to look over everything when I'm not on my way to work, but, as Max said, EC(no A, in my opinion) is great. is a good place to buy it, but a bit of a pain in the ass with their identification policies.

    I used to just buy it at the store, but now the only ephedrine available is in gel tabs and costs, like, 8 bucks for 12 of them. :eek:
  17. Preacher

    Preacher Junior Member

    its seems that 90% of all the ephedrine I see is Pseudoephedrine which is a weak form of the real stuff, is it not? what is your honest opion on running clen? as its a hell of alot easier to get hell so is crack. But there is well hell of a price diffrence.

    My search will continue, I must finish this report ;)
  18. MaxRep

    MaxRep Member

    Since clen can only be used for a maximum of 2 weeks straight, it's most common to use clen for 2 weeks then go off it and use an ECA stack for 2 weeks and continue alternating.

    I'm not sure why it's so hard to find ephedrine... - are a few places to check. I personally use the the Mega-pro vasopro brand which is 25mg/tab of ephedrine. I don't know about shipping to Canada or if there may be better prices. The prices on these sites are in line with what I pay at my local nutrition store.

    Best regards,
  19. Preacher

    Preacher Junior Member

    Its not that its hard to find, its hard to get someone to ship to the North here.
  20. Grizzly

    Grizzly Member

    I'm not a fan of clen. I think EC is better.